# Surgical Strike – Coming 15 April **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [April 7, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569 "2020-04-07T11:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Tokaguwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tokaguwa/32/244455_2.png) [@Tokaguwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tokaguwa)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2059 "2020-04-12T17:00:05Z")
One area that does get a fun buff is brawling on the other side of warp gates in FW plexes. I’m looking forward to that ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Guru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/don_guru/32/270284_2.png) [@Don\_Guru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Don_Guru)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2060 "2020-04-12T17:11:03Z")
Look, you’re just straight up wrong. Reward scaling and difficulty has to be measured vs isk invested, not numbers of players involved. There is no “dedicated group content” as far as PVE goes except incursions and invasions. 10/10 sites were a very early version of that true, when they were literally so valuble they caused sov wars for control over them. That time is long past however. The 500 mil garantueed reward is simply not worth it when you split it up say 3 ways and front an expensive ship given how scarce they are compared to other more solo activites you could engage in. ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2061 "2020-04-12T19:42:25Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > So here’s a quick list for you of a bunch of changes CCP has implemented over the years that severely nerfed the ■■■■ out nonconsensual PvP: > > - CONCORD being made invulnerable, given stat boosts, and being made a kill trigger > - Wars increased in cost by 25x > - **MULTIPLE** CONCORD buffs to damage, e-war, and response time (I could make a line for each one but I’m too lazy) > - Mining barge EHP boosted **significantly** across all types and tiers, and fitting options improved > - Removing of fleet warfare aggro transfer (the Lofty scam) > - Increasing criminal act security status penalties (you used to need to pod multiple people just to get to -2.0, and now all you need is one ship kill) > - Making it _officially_ legal to repeatedly roll corporations to avoid wars, after disallowing it for many years > - Removal of insurance payouts for deaths where CONCORD is involved > - War costs becoming a function of amount of members the target has (so that a small corporation declaring war against a large one would pay orders of magnitude more than a large corporation declaring war against a small one - utterly asinine) > - Introduction of the war ally system, which costs much less than declaring war does > - Introduction of the “safety” button, making it impossible to trick someone into shooting you by employing social engineering > - Crimewatch being introduced, leading to suspect timers, kill rights, et cetera (this really needs half a dozen separate bullet points, but I’m lazy) > - Corporate friendly fire toggle virtually eliminating assassinations from the game > - No longer being able to warp after committing a crime, instead of after CONCORD retaliation > - Disallowing wars unless targets own assets in space > > And now is a list of all buffs to nonconsensual PvP, both direct and indirect: > > - War transfer mechanics making the “Dec Shield” impossible to work, because corporations could shed their wars repeatedly with one button click (this is basically a bug fix and not a new feature addition) > - Tags-for-sec mechanic, which is admittedly convenient, but expensive as hell > - Introduction of tier 3 BCs, which have BS-level damage but lower costs, and are as such pretty good for ganking, incidentally > - Adding a small NPC corp tax for PvE activities > > Not a very even distribution of changes, wouldn’t you agree? Ah, who am I kidding? Of course you won’t agree. Everything short of a button that allows you to selectively turn off PvP in the game is a “PvP buff” to you. Ok… I make it EASY for you… All those changes were NECESSARY because even CCP saw at one point that the spoiling of PVP went too far,so they did changes for different reasons…one of them was losing pve players massively… This is no spoiling this was needed,BECAUSE of the pointed reason. On the other hand PVP looses NOTHING,they could continue their game,just a liitle more uncomfortable,unconviniend… THIS IS A SPOIL FOR YOU ??? WOW… Reality bubble alarm… And yes…a non pvp flag that you simply can turn on and off if you want would help this game… A lot… ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2062 "2020-04-12T20:05:06Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > CODE. is just another player corporation. They’re roleplayers. That’s all. And yet, kids like Ragori here are sitting, fuming, because they believe CODE. to be some giant conspiracy with CCP. How small and meaningless is your existence in a video game that you’re SO mad at a roleplaying corporation? Erm? CSM and the goon domination? Don’t try to tell me this is new for you… ---
**Author:** ![Darlo\_Kubika](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darlo_kubika/32/178136_2.png) [@Darlo\_Kubika](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darlo_Kubika)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2063 "2020-04-12T20:07:09Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > Damn, you are still here… i’d call that a failure. Made another alt to look your statement look more ‘spreaded out’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2065 "2020-04-12T20:28:07Z")
> [@Don\_Guru](#): > > Look, you’re just straight up wrong. > > Reward scaling and difficulty has to be measured vs isk invested, not numbers of players involved. There is no “dedicated group content” as far as PVE goes except incursions and invasions. 10/10 sites were a very early version of that true, when they were literally so valuble they caused sov wars for control over them. > > That time is long past however. The 500 mil garantueed reward is simply not worth it when you split it up say 3 ways and front an expensive ship given how scarce they are compared to other more solo activites you could engage in. That makes it sound like the content itself needs to be re-balanced, then. If CCP put out so many new ways of farming ISK that 10/10s became devalued by comparison, they should rework all of these PvE activities and give them a clear progression structure by risk and difficulty. But the solution is **not** “well, considering the risks, player/time requirements, and payout levels, it looks like these 10/10 sites that put out like 5,000 damage per second are less profitable than falling asleep during an incursion, so we’re going to allow subcapitals to tank their damage so that players can do them solo, and not have to spread their earnings around with friends!” ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2066 "2020-04-12T20:33:54Z")
> [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > So here’s a quick list for you of a bunch of changes CCP has implemented over the years that severely nerfed the ■■■■ out nonconsensual PvP: > > > > - CONCORD being made invulnerable, given stat boosts, and being made a kill trigger > > - Wars increased in cost by 25x > > - **MULTIPLE** CONCORD buffs to damage, e-war, and response time (I could make a line for each one but I’m too lazy) > > - Mining barge EHP boosted **significantly** across all types and tiers, and fitting options improved > > - Removing of fleet warfare aggro transfer (the Lofty scam) > > - Increasing criminal act security status penalties (you used to need to pod multiple people just to get to -2.0, and now all you need is one ship kill) > > - Making it _officially_ legal to repeatedly roll corporations to avoid wars, after disallowing it for many years > > - Removal of insurance payouts for deaths where CONCORD is involved > > - War costs becoming a function of amount of members the target has (so that a small corporation declaring war against a large one would pay orders of magnitude more than a large corporation declaring war against a small one - utterly asinine) > > - Introduction of the war ally system, which costs much less than declaring war does > > - Introduction of the “safety” button, making it impossible to trick someone into shooting you by employing social engineering > > - Crimewatch being introduced, leading to suspect timers, kill rights, et cetera (this really needs half a dozen separate bullet points, but I’m lazy) > > - Corporate friendly fire toggle virtually eliminating assassinations from the game > > - No longer being able to warp after committing a crime, instead of after CONCORD retaliation > > - Disallowing wars unless targets own assets in space > > > > And now is a list of all buffs to nonconsensual PvP, both direct and indirect: > > > > - War transfer mechanics making the “Dec Shield” impossible to work, because corporations could shed their wars repeatedly with one button click (this is basically a bug fix and not a new feature addition) > > - Tags-for-sec mechanic, which is admittedly convenient, but expensive as hell > > - Introduction of tier 3 BCs, which have BS-level damage but lower costs, and are as such pretty good for ganking, incidentally > > - Adding a small NPC corp tax for PvE activities > > > > Not a very even distribution of changes, wouldn’t you agree? Ah, who am I kidding? Of course you won’t agree. Everything short of a button that allows you to selectively turn off PvP in the game is a “PvP buff” to you. > > Ok… > > I make it EASY for you… > > All those changes were NECESSARY because even CCP saw at one point that the spoiling of PVP went too far,so they did changes for different reasons…one of them was losing pve players massively… > > This is no spoiling this was needed,BECAUSE of the pointed reason. > > On the other hand PVP looses NOTHING,they could continue their game,just a liitle more uncomfortable,unconviniend… > > THIS IS A SPOIL FOR YOU ??? > > WOW… > > Reality bubble alarm… If the changes I listed were “necessary” in your eyes, who’s to say that this change isn’t necessary as well? By the way, some things you claim have happened that never actually happened: 1. CCP mentioning anything about PvP going too far 2. The game losing PvE players “massively” - that count as a proportion of the population has always went up, and this is a statistic you can derive by comparing kill boards today compared to say, 2010, which I’ve actually _done_, which shows that there are way fewer players that engage in _regular_ PvP combat as a percentage of the population 3. PvPers continuing their game uncomfortably and not inconvenienced - fundamentally false, as **ALL** avenues for violence in high-sec have been removed over the years except for ganking, and the severely-limited, bastardized version of war we still have left today > [@Darlo\_Kubika](#): > > And yes…a non pvp flag that you simply can turn on and off if you want would help this game… > > A lot… Well, that just says everything that people need to know about you, so thanks for making it public. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Norbi\_Wroclawianin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norbi_wroclawianin/32/182188_2.png) [@Norbi\_Wroclawianin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norbi_Wroclawianin)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2084 "2020-04-12T21:27:58Z")
I think - will there be a change in mending?-rapairer - I’ll have to fix more now-I’m sorry for my English ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2085 "2020-04-12T21:36:22Z")
you mean local repairer, I think. And it seems, no. ---
**Author:** ![Zercix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zercix/32/378921_2.png) [@Zercix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zercix)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2086 "2020-04-12T21:57:21Z")
> [@Chan\_aar](#): > > Eve players are terribly risk averse In the grand scheme of gaming, even the most carebearish of EvE players would not be considered risk averse, in my most honest opinion that is. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2087 "2020-04-12T22:08:22Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > And your argument amounts to a claim that the initial creation of something in game development is absolute in both its intent and in practice, and that a developer can’t realize that something they’ve implemented into their game is fundamentally flawed, even if it takes them years to come to this conclusion. > > That is stupid. If the activity was an issue, then changing that activity would be easier like they did for EC. > > What this amount to, is that your whole claim is complete BS. That was just one part but every thing else you claim is full of sh¡t - the fact that the activity is supposed to be ran with that amount of tank being only one small detail, but easy enough to prove that you are wrong. I might not be a _great_ programmer, but I do write code and understand how it works, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that changing a single variable (the effects of which can be modeled in an Excel sheet of moderate difficulty) is easier to test, implement, and troubleshoot than changing hundreds of individual metrics e.g. mission damage output logic, where such things as aggro times, player velocity, position, signature radius, enemy alpha versus shield bleed, etc. etc. all play a part in the damage calculation. A lot more things can go wrong when adjusting multiple variables in a complex system, than adjusting just two (resistances, and hit points to compensate and keep baseline EHP the same). So no, adjusting the activity would not be easier. Also, they want to affect PvP with this change as well, and this way it’s a one-size-fits-all. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2088 "2020-04-12T22:14:21Z")
> [@Zercix](#): > > > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > > > Eve players are terribly risk averse > > In the grand scheme of gaming, even the most carebearish of EvE players would not be considered risk averse, in my most honest opinion that is. I disagree. Samples of this size will represent the entire population pretty reliably. EVE simply skews our perceptions of this because it makes PvP _unavoidable_, as opposed to, say, how it is implemented in WoW or some other mainstream MMO. We think that EVE has “harder” players based only on the fact that all EVE players are _playing EVE_. But the actual reality is that this is just a videogame like any other. People see an ad and sign up, or their friends draw them in. ---
**Author:** ![Anastazjusz\_Kozak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anastazjusz_kozak/32/167205_2.png) [@Anastazjusz\_Kozak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anastazjusz_Kozak)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2089 "2020-04-12T22:16:19Z")
Well it doesn’t change the fact there are no filaments on singularity test server simply no possibility to test how the nerf will affect abyssal sites ---
**Author:** ![Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lazrial_sokarad/32/272937_2.png) [@Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lazrial_Sokarad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2090 "2020-04-12T22:26:05Z")
The resist nerfs set the bar even higher for newer players that dont really do PVP yet to advance into harder PVE content where they can make more isk to start doing more in general. Yeah older players with level 5 everything might be able to switch some modules, use a bling fit or use some tech II ship and adapt quickly but this will take newer players months of training. Will this just make new player retention worse if PVE isn’t tuned around these changes? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2094 "2020-04-12T22:31:38Z")
> [@Lazrial\_Sokarad](#): > > but this will take newer players months of training. Can you point which skills will take “months” of training? ---
**Author:** ![Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lazrial_sokarad/32/272937_2.png) [@Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lazrial_Sokarad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2098 "2020-04-12T22:45:55Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Can you point which skills will take “months” of training? 1 individual skill doesnt take months but a set of additional skills to make up for the nerfs can take a fair bit of training, for example if your armor resist compensation skills are at 4 it takes over 1 week to get each one up to level 5, thats an extra month right there. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2099 "2020-04-12T22:48:09Z")
> [@Lazrial\_Sokarad](#): > > for example if your armor resist compensation skills are at 4 it takes over 1 week to get each one up to level 5, thats an extra month right there. That’s fair. But are Armor Compensation 5 skills required for “new players” in order to complete PvE activities? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2100 "2020-04-12T22:59:31Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > That’s fair. But are Armor Compensation 5 skills required for “new players” in order to complete PvE activities? If L4 was required before, then now even with L5 you’ll have still LESS tank than you had before. before the resist was base × 1.20 Now it is base × 0.8 × 1.25 = base × 1 . Yeah, literally what CCP did was remove the compensation skills. ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2101 "2020-04-12T23:00:19Z")
Hardly. But I will say that certain content is going to be a bit over-tuned to be reasonably dealt with. Guristas FOB for example are going to be a copper plated pain in the arse to solo/duo down with the upper resist threshold dragged down enough that you take an extra 50% damage with existing fits. And adding extra ships isn’t exactly an actual option because those sites spew a _lot_ of extra ships for every extra player ship on grid. ---
**Author:** ![Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lazrial_sokarad/32/272937_2.png) [@Lazrial\_Sokarad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lazrial_Sokarad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569/2102 "2020-04-12T23:01:43Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > That’s fair. But are Armor Compensation 5 skills required for “new players” in order to complete PvE activities? My account is just over 2 months old (had omega the whole time, no plex to isk. ive earned everything), me and a friend do emerging conduits, currently I’m using an AC Machariel with the best of what i can afford and he is using a budget praxis. we get it done with the odd warp out and sometimes a couple of sketchy moments when they switch to him for too long or im tanking a big wave. the tech II guns and ammo are around 20 days off so i dont get that buff and my armor resist stuff is at level 4, yes the possibility of a couple of months training to get to where i already am again is very real. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569.md?page=83) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/surgical-strike-coming-15-april/230569.md?page=85)