# Suspect/criminal timer and player owned stations **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [February 7, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836 "2022-02-07T03:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/165 "2022-02-12T18:29:32Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > forum warfare FORUM WARFARE ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/166 "2022-02-12T21:43:45Z")
I’m looking forward to Forum Warfare 2. I hear that one’s going to have No Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/167 "2022-02-13T07:36:29Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > No, Gix…it’s increasingly clear that that’s your role here. And I don’t need lectures from someone who’s killboard 50% consists of zapping Ventures. I kill what’s out there friend 😃 No one turns down a viable target. Why don’t you roam low and see what you can find? You actually think you can AGG with missiles. Its hilarious. DC already pointed out what I was merely being snarky about it. Missiles suck for AGGing. You need to adopt actual ganker tactics/fits. Which means blasters/arties/potentially ACs. You need large DPS and a good volley, because you have to kill them before CONCORD kills you. What’s funny is once you start to AGG, you will actually understand ganking far more better, since you are essentially ganking as well. I already solved ganking. Months ago. But people simply won’t do it what it takes to do it. Even you are only doing a piece of it ROFL. > [@Xeux](#): > > Why does everybody on these forums default to trying to educate people with outlandish ideas - even when it is clear that such people don’t want to be educated? I suppose we are good people after all. Just trynna help the wayward allegedly noob who has no idea what they are doing 😃 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Githany was talking about proactively removing gankers, not ganking as such! That is ganking. Ganking the gankers before they gank is ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 7:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/168 "2022-02-13T07:58:20Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Yes…I’ve already decided that lower cost ships Yes our sister corp we set up to gank gankers uses in the main the ship the gankers uses, cats T1 and T2 , Thrashers and working towards a group of Ruptures also we have some cruiser tacklers/gate gun bait if we ever need them . ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/169 "2022-02-13T08:54:46Z")
We have a member corp that ganks ganker scouts and they use thrashers. To make it clear, to blow up a Freighter wreck in the time needed before they can scoop it, we would need to use 2x Tornado to be sure, we used to be able to use a single thrasher… That would be ganking by the way…, that is what AG is expected to do now to deny loot. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/170 "2022-02-13T10:07:39Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > that is what AG is expected to do now to deny loot. There’s a lot of adaptation that gankers have had to do even just since I’ve been ganking. It’s part of the game… yes we ■■■■■ and moan but ultimately all there is to do is to HTFU and either adapt or die. Also that is not your only option for denying loot. Maybe you should figure out how many thrashers are needed to pop the wreck? 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/171 "2022-02-13T10:15:47Z")
Perhaps I need to figure out also where I get those players from? Perhaps I have no income source from my activities to fund those thrashers unlike you, and perhaps the security status hit and KR’s actually matter to me. 🤯 People can of course loot scoop and that is what I advise them to do. It tends to impact the gankers rather nicely. If @Cilla_Cybin is looking for a good way to impede gankers loot scooping is the way and you can make a lot of ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/172 "2022-02-13T10:41:03Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Perhaps I have no income source from my activities to fund those thrashers unlike you A very heartfelt argument. Okay, I will up my challenge to 10 billion ISK. Held by a third party like Chribba, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/173 "2022-02-13T10:47:57Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Perhaps I need to figure out also where I get those players from? This is an MMO. Try recruiting people maybe? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Perhaps I have no income source from my activities to fund those thrashers unlike you Last I checked, which was yesterday… a thrasher cost around 2m. This is the meta arty thrasher that I use. You mean to tell me that a fleet of thrashers is unreasonable? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > perhaps the security status hit and KR’s actually matter to me. How is it any different now than in the past when you were able to use a SINGLE thrasher? You were going criminal and were taking a security standing hit. I might be wrong but shooting a wreck doesn’t provide a killright. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > 🤯 It doesn’t make sense when you use this emoji because your excuses are weak. Like I’m not even trying to troll you but mechanically and practically your excuses listed above are very very wrong and lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/174 "2022-02-13T11:13:50Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > This is an MMO. Try recruiting people maybe? But do you? You just log in a load of alts. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Last I checked, which was yesterday… a thrasher cost around 2m. This is the meta arty thrasher that I use. You mean to tell me that a fleet of thrashers is unreasonable? I don’t have income from my activities, unlike you. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > How is it any different now than in the past when you were able to use a SINGLE thrasher? You were going criminal and were taking a security standing hit. I might be wrong but shooting a wreck doesn’t provide a killright. Maybe an odd alt can be left to do that, but more than that and this issue has always been there. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > It doesn’t make sense when you use this emoji because your excuses are weak. Like I’m not even trying to troll you but mechanically and practically your excuses listed above are very very wrong and lazy. What I have detailed is the why, you will ignore it as always so I repeat: 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/175 "2022-02-13T11:43:46Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > But do you? You just log in a load of alts. Yes. While I don’t openly recruit there are 5 of us that are working together. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I don’t have income from my activities, unlike you 2 million isk per thrasher. We’re not talking about anything crazy here… How can you justify training into any EDENCOM ship when you’re literally saying you can’t afford some thrashers? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Maybe an odd alt can be left to do that, but more than that and this issue has always been there. What? No do you understand what I was quoting? The excuse you gave was the exact situation back before the change in 2016. To break it down… - You’re complaining that you’d have security status hits: This has always been the case. - You’re complaining about killrights: I’m 95.738% positive you don’t give out kill rights when you shoot at a wreck You talk about how anti-gankers were somehow hamstrung because wreck ehp was buffed and you can no longer use a single thrasher, but literally the only thing that’s changed is the amount of thrashers… and with that the cost, yes. The complaints you pointed out don’t make sense. In short, adapt of die. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > What I have detailed is the why, you will ignore it as always so I repeat: > > 🤯 Nice, ok. I’m just trying to help you point out the flaws in your logic. It’s always funny and entertaining to watch you be so sure of yourself that you just can’t possibly be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/176 "2022-02-13T11:46:08Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > We have a member corp that ganks ganker scouts and they use thrashers. > > To make it clear, to blow up a Freighter wreck in the time needed before they can scoop it, we would need to use 2x Tornado to be sure, we used to be able to use a single thrasher… That would be ganking by the way…, that is what AG is expected to do now to deny loot. Sure you do bro, sure you do 😃 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > But do you? You just log in a load of alts. Your whole corp is you and your alts bro 😃 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I don’t have income from my activities, unlike you. Wut. So you buy PLEX or are you saying you don’t really play 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/177 "2022-02-13T11:59:33Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > You talk about how anti-gankers were somehow hamstrung because wreck ehp was buffed and you can no longer use a single thrasher, but literally the only thing that’s changed is the amount of thrashers… and with that the cost, yes. The complaints you pointed out don’t make sense. They think it’s fair that gankers need to organize dozens of players with 30-50 total accounts to gank a target, but it’s _not_ fair that they can’t completely nullify such a tremendous effort with a single volley from a ■■■■-fit Rifter. Mind you, the wreck-shooters don’t even get a full security status hit from killing a player ship. It’s just the tiny aggression penalty, and nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/178 "2022-02-13T12:07:26Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > They think it’s fair that gankers need to organize dozens of players with 30-50 total accounts to gank a target, but it’s _not_ fair that they can’t completely nullify such a tremendous effort with a single volley from a ■■■■-fit Rifter. Right!!!?? It’s hard to feel sorry for someone complaining about that when I look at the lengths I go through to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/179 "2022-02-13T12:47:45Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Yes. While I don’t openly recruit there are 5 of us that are working together. You just log in a load of alts… > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > 2 million isk per thrasher. We’re not talking about anything crazy here… How can you justify training into any EDENCOM ship when you’re literally saying you can’t afford some thrashers? I don’t have any income from this activity unlike you, it is a statement of fact. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > What? No do you understand what I was quoting? The excuse you gave was the exact situation back before the change in 2016. To break it down… > > - You’re complaining that you’d have security status hits: This has always been the case. > - You’re complaining about killrights: I’m 95.738% positive you don’t give out kill rights when you shoot at a wreck > > You talk about how anti-gankers were somehow hamstrung because wreck ehp was buffed and you can no longer use a single thrasher, but literally the only thing that’s changed is the amount of thrashers… and with that the cost, yes. The complaints you pointed out don’t make sense. > > In short, adapt of die. I never said it was a change from anything, I am merely explaining the impact of security status, kill rights etc. on this activity called AG. You are just going on on a tangent to avoid the point. What I said makes total sense. Actually when I shoot the wreck I give a killright to the owner of the wreck and as it was the person you ganked they then make it available to others along with the rest. As I have actually done this, I know… In short the gankers could not deal with the wreck ganking we did so instead of adapting or dying they went to CCP and got the EHP changed, so much for adapt or die, if only gankers followed that rule. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Nice, ok. I’m just trying to help you point out the flaws in your logic. It’s always funny and entertaining to watch you be so sure of yourself that you just can’t possibly be wrong. You just dug yourself in deeper without any counter to what I said. 🤯 > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Right!!!?? It’s hard to feel sorry for someone complaining about that when I look at the lengths I go through to do something. Do I want you to feel sorry for me? No way jose… ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/180 "2022-02-13T16:13:38Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > 2 million isk per thrasher. We’re not talking about anything crazy here Actually its more like 10m ISK for all the weapons, etc to get it to 400 DPS. But that’s not really the issue. One has to add in the loss of security status…about 0.25 for every gank, and the cost of tags or time spent ratting to get that status back up again. I could easily have ganked an abandoned Ibis yesterday…just sitting there in space…but it just wasn’t worth it, just to get one kill record. To me that’s the real cost…not the ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/181 "2022-02-13T20:46:33Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Actually its more like 10m ISK for all the weapons, etc to get it to 400 DPS. But that’s not really the issue. I use a 2m isk Arty Thrasher. Works just fine for me. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > One has to add in the loss of security status…about 0.25 for every gank, and the cost of tags or time spent ratting to get that status back up again. Why do you need security tags? Have a dedicated alt(s) that stay -10 and pop wrecks when a gank occurs? Welcome to being criminal my guy… you’re starting to see that there’s a balance between opportunity cost and profit. That there’s downsides that require concessions or adaptation. You have access to the exact same tools and gameplay that gankers have with only one major difference. You’re waiting for a ganker to strike and have no idea when that’ll be. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/182 "2022-02-13T21:25:33Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > In short the gankers could not deal with the wreck ganking we did so instead of adapting or dying they went to CCP and got the EHP changed, so much for adapt or die, if only gankers followed that rule. Except it’s not actually possible to adapt someone burning a wreck with a single volley (from the cheapest possible ship with the cheapest possible setup). Developer intervention in situations where adaptation isn’t possible is very much justified. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > Actually its more like 10m ISK for all the weapons, etc to get it to 400 DPS. If you’re only getting 400 DPS out of a 10-million-ISK destroyer, you’re doing something _terribly_ wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/183 "2022-02-13T22:31:21Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Welcome to being criminal my guy… you’re starting to see that there’s a balance between opportunity cost and profit. Indeed…just made a profit selling clone soldier negotiator tags. Expensive, and risky transporting them from Jita and Dodixie to outlying places…but it doesn’t take long for people to buy them. ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836/184 "2022-02-13T22:44:03Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If you’re only getting 400 DPS out of a 10-million-ISK destroyer, you’re doing something _terribly_ wrong. It’s called waiting for the skills queue. Queues for all the different races…queues for turrets…queues for missiles…queues for rigs…yada yada. The worst aspect being that many skills, for example heavy missiles, require that you have level 5 of some lower skill that can take 14 days or so. Given that that alt only started in late November…400DPS is doing pretty good ! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/suspect-criminal-timer-and-player-owned-stations/348836.md?page=10)