# T3 Attack Battlecruisers - The anti-capital subcap **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [August 14, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063 "2018-08-14T16:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cpt_whiteeye/32/473463_2.png) [@Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cpt_WhiteEye)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/21 "2018-08-27T15:07:53Z")
Im pretty sure BattleCrusiers are bigger ships with same gun as cruisers and not the other way around. > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > -1 a battle cruiser is already a “big gunned” cruiser. > > _conjured up image with HUGE weapon on tiny ship_ 🤣 > > Battleship would be better with more correct offsets, but I am not 100% convinced of the need for the role. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/22 "2018-08-31T20:28:28Z")
Capital ships are expensive and already have way too many counters, I don’t think it needs another one, especially not one that costs a lot less than the capital itself. What is the point of a capital that costs you like 18b that gets easily destroyed by 3 guys in T3 anti-caps worth less than 1b total? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/23 "2018-09-01T10:24:17Z")
> [@Stitch\_Kaneland](#): > > Because an anti-capital battleship would require massive EHP to make it work. Meaning its easier to abuse in other situations where its not against a capital. Not necessarily. It could be for example a module that protects it from damage dealt only by XL weapons and fighters, but not sub caps. It could also be much like battlecruisers have a line of ships that can equip and use L weapons, a Battleship line that could use XL weapons. I also see an opportunity here for the Precursor ships and weapons. How about one that takes even longer to spool up but ends up doing even more damage ? It could be up to the point where they can be operationally useful only vs caps and structures. Makes perfect sense when fighting caps. Cap specific EWAR that gets pass their resistances / immunities but can’t be used on other targets. Lots of things can be done, these are just off the top of my head as I write this. If I sat down and thought about it I’d come up with some really good system or multitude of systems. if many people sat down and thought about it they’d come up with something even better. All in all, the balance gap between caps and sub caps is just too screwed up. But I do think battleships should fill that gap in some forms. You can also combine it with a slight nerf to caps across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/24 "2018-09-01T10:25:27Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Capital ships are expensive and already have way too many counters, I don’t think it needs another one, especially not one that costs a lot less than the capital itself. Have you looked at killboard lately ? Caps cost far less then good PVE sub caps nowadays. Stop living half a decade or more ago. It is not uncommon to fly sub caps + pods (implants for them) in excess of 5-6 bil, meanwhile I see too many cap kills under 2 bil. LOL W T F ? Just W T F ? Wheres the balance ? ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/25 "2018-09-01T18:25:25Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > Caps cost far less then good PVE sub caps nowadays. Stop living half a decade or more ago. Low-caps are at ~2b to 2.5b if fitted cheap for PvP, sub caps are at 0.3b to 0.5b if you fit the good stuff. Not sure what you are smoking man, but you should take a lot less of it I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sepheir_sepheron/32/279597_2.png) [@Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sepheir_Sepheron)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/26 "2018-09-01T19:22:52Z")
People are dropping unsupported caps all the time. Look at black rise matters for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/27 "2018-09-01T20:34:53Z")
Think Talos with Moros guns. ---
**Author:** ![Nico\_Boru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nico_boru/32/64941_2.png) [@Nico\_Boru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nico_Boru)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/28 "2018-09-01T20:36:35Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Low-caps are at ~2b to 2.5b if fitted cheap for PvP, sub caps are at 0.3b to 0.5b if you fit the good stuff. PVE subcaps. People put purple on their pirate hulls they run missions in. Those are the pricey ones. ---
**Author:** ![Stitch\_Kaneland](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitch_kaneland/32/380745_2.png) [@Stitch\_Kaneland](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitch_Kaneland)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/29 "2018-09-02T00:31:03Z")
Suicide dreads fully fitted are 1.5b after insurance. A marauders base hull cost is 1.6b. A pirate BS to be competitive in pvp is ~1.5-2b and doesnt insure as well. Tell me more about how capitals are more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/30 "2018-09-02T02:34:57Z")
> [@Sepheir\_Sepheron](#): > > People are dropping unsupported caps all the time. Look at black rise matters for instance. They’d be damned easy to kill if anyone ever decided to try. ---
**Author:** ![Dior\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dior_ambraelle/32/393685_2.png) [@Dior\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dior_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/31 "2018-09-02T06:57:52Z")
“The air force reported that one of their Warthogs’ gun was stolen. I need to search your car.” Sorry, I had to. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/32 "2018-09-02T08:27:29Z")
> [@Raw\_Matters](#): > > Low-caps are at ~2b to 2.5b if fitted cheap for PvP, sub caps are at 0.3b to 0.5b if you fit the good stuff. Not sure what you are smoking man, but you should take a lot less of it I guess. No am not sure W T F **_you’re_** smoking man. Large portion of pvp caps or rather ISK for them, actually a huge, gigantic portion comes from cap ratting, and ratting caps are cheaper then PVE sub caps. ■■■■, even a measely PVE Marauder for L4s exceeds 2 bil, there are ratting carriers on zkill that are under 1.7B total. O and just for kicks, have you seen the fits for T5 filaments lately ? The yhit fkn 7-8 Bil with market fluctuations. Though I hope at least that will come back down. This greatly contributes to the imbalance, of course its not the main or total picture, but it is a huge chunk of it. ---
**Author:** ![Raw\_Matters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raw_matters/32/462866_2.png) [@Raw\_Matters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raw_Matters)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2018, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/33 "2018-09-02T11:09:49Z")
@Fluffy_Moe I have no idea what your random numbers are supposed to contribute to the topic. So people fly 2b+ ships into L4 mission and T5 filaments are expensive… what the hell does this have to do with sub-caps killing caps in PvP? Sorry, I am simply going to ignore you from this point on, as even reading your posts feels like a big waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/34 "2018-09-03T12:20:13Z")
One thing i find lacking in cap warfare is the long range weapons on dreads; they just not used. ---
**Author:** ![Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cpt_whiteeye/32/473463_2.png) [@Cpt\_WhiteEye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cpt_WhiteEye)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/35 "2018-09-03T19:36:55Z")
Just because you never seen them used it doesnt mean they are not used. A Cyno jammed System with a Naglfar Hellcamp from 120km is scary. And its been done before. But why wouldanyone use them if close range is superior in almost every encounter? ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/36 "2018-09-03T19:43:54Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > they just not used. > [@Cpt\_WhiteEye](#): > > close range is superior in almost every encounter @Cpt_WhiteEye hit it on the head. Dreads have jump drives. They’re used for sucide drops. 99 times out of 100 when you’re using them, you’re dropping them at zero on your target so that you can take a dildo and ram it up the other fleet’s ass… and due to the nature of capital fleets, they’ve no choice but to pucker up and take it. If you’ve a choice between using a long and skinny dildo, or a short fat one, which do you think is gonna hurt more? Becuase it is your choice. You’re dropping them at whatever range you want. ---
**Author:** ![Krysenth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/krysenth/32/58194_2.png) [@Krysenth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Krysenth)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/37 "2018-09-04T03:48:09Z")
Pretty sure Bombers are the go-to for anti-cap subs. Their weapon platform is literally designed to tackle capitals. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/38 "2018-09-04T21:52:06Z")
> [@Krysenth](#): > > Pretty sure Bombers are the go-to for anti-cap subs. Their weapon platform is literally designed to tackle capitals. (Focused) Void bombs are bar-none the best way to kill caps. Completely agree with you. I think I flew bombers too much. I kind of mumble and grumble and can’t decide if I want to accidentally disconnect my router when I have to fly a bomber. Even if it is more effective. Invested a lot of SP in my blops. Damn well better be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/t3-attack-battlecruisers-the-anti-capital-subcap/98063/39 "2018-12-03T21:52:14Z")
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