# Target Painters and Explosion Velocity **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [April 14, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705 "2019-04-14T10:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Butt\_Cigar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/butt_cigar/32/131787_2.png) [@Butt\_Cigar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Butt_Cigar)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/21 "2019-04-16T05:58:35Z")
Have you heard of the Golem? ---
**Author:** ![Val\_en\_Thielles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/val_en_thielles/32/513176_2.png) [@Val\_en\_Thielles](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Val_en_Thielles)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/22 "2019-04-16T15:00:19Z")
Value set for MWD battleship vs. Fury light missile (base values) (1, 2800 (S) / 69 (E), (2800 / 69 \* 143 (Ve) / 1000 (Vt))^0.682 (drf)) ( **1** , 40.6, 3.32) full damage Value set for AB destroyer vs. Fury light missile (1, 70 / 69, (70 / 69 \* 143/1000)^0.682)) (1, 1.01, **0.27** ) 27% damage That’s all I have left to say. edit: accidentallyed ab destroyer sig value as mwd destroyer sig value, elite mathematics lol ---
**Author:** ![Venom\_Anarchy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/venom_anarchy/32/490305_2.png) [@Venom\_Anarchy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Venom_Anarchy)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/23 "2019-04-18T06:05:51Z")
So actually you can bloom the velocity out of the equation because (10/1 \*1/10) And Flare catalyst affects Ve and Rigor catalyst affects E both by 15% so which is better ? ---
**Author:** ![Val\_en\_Thielles](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/val_en_thielles/32/513176_2.png) [@Val\_en\_Thielles](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Val_en_Thielles)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/24 "2019-04-18T10:52:55Z")
[Here](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_mechanics#Application_Modules_and_Stacking_Penalties) it says rigor is better as a rule of thumb, but we are starting to get into theorycrafting and pyfa territory. ---
**Author:** ![Venom\_Anarchy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/venom_anarchy/32/490305_2.png) [@Venom\_Anarchy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Venom_Anarchy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/25 "2019-04-23T00:59:23Z")
I think we concluded that rigor would be effective due to the stacking penalty of target painters especially against MWD ships and the fact that ships don’t often have enough spare mids for TP’s. It’s difficult to see where flare comes in other than if you already have 2 rigor fitted. ---
**Author:** ![anon29945599](https://imageserver.eveonline.com/Character/1_512.jpg) [@anon29945599](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/anon29945599)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/26 "2019-05-20T13:54:31Z")
I spent some time looking at the formula the other day. It looks like Explosion & Sig Radius is more important than Target & Explosion Velocity as it figures in both the ratio calculations in the Min formula below, whereas the Target & Explosion Velocity only figures in the 2nd ratio calc: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/1/51d4c8169fadb75cb8e7a120d2fba20f19113605.png) ‘S/E’ uses Signature factors only ‘S/E x Ve/Vt’ uses both Signature _and_ Velocity factors in the calc What this means is that if your S/E ratio is over 1, it gets used in the Velocity calc to increase the Velocity ratio, giving you a better damage application. This means modules/rigs that modify Signature or Explosion Radius are ‘more’ important that modules/rigs that modify Explosion or Target Velocity, up to a certain point. Basically, because Signature factors are used more in the calc than Explosion factors. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/27 "2019-05-20T14:33:36Z")
it just means that you can compensate a bad explosion speed by increasing the target signature or reducing explosion radius, but you can’t compensate a bad explosion radius by reducing target speed nor increasing explosion velocity. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/28 "2019-05-20T17:09:34Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > it just means that you can compensate a bad explosion speed by increasing the target speed or reducing explosion radius, but you can’t compensate a bad explosion radius by reducing target speed nor increasing explosion velocity. \*reducing target speed ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/29 "2019-05-20T17:11:49Z")
actually it’s target sig, but you’re right this made no sense. fixed, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Venom\_Anarchy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/venom_anarchy/32/490305_2.png) [@Venom\_Anarchy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Venom_Anarchy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/30 "2019-06-14T01:24:41Z")
S/E counters itself with MWD sig is 5x Velocity maybe 7x A target painter probably brings that to around 1/1. It is only useful to have it higher than 1/1 within the inner brackets. So a light missile with E27 Ve 255 and a target with S 200 and Vt 4000 = 200/27 x 255/4000 = 7.4 x 0.063 = 0.47 Damage. ---
**Author:** ![dewk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dewk/32/168218_2.png) [@dewk](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/dewk)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/31 "2019-06-14T08:02:19Z")
Ideally you want your explosion radius equal to or smaller than target signature. If you do it means more of the explosion is focused on target. The explosion velocity is just how fast the damage spreads from the site of detonation to the explosion radius edge. This helps with fast movers. So yes target painters helps a bit, it will help large explosion radius missiles do damage. Using Precision missiles and Guidance Computers with precision script, will do a better job. For example i have a battleship with rapid heavy launchers, running scripts and lowslot modules, and it has no issues with drones or fast movers. No target painter needed, and if target at range, just switch script to range. ---
**Author:** ![Venom\_Anarchy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/venom_anarchy/32/490305_2.png) [@Venom\_Anarchy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Venom_Anarchy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/32 "2019-06-14T10:23:24Z")
> [@dewk](#): > > Ideally you want your explosion radius equal to or smaller than target signature. What I was saying is that that is no way near enough for a fast moving target, if it wasn’t for the 500% sig penalty from using an MWD that damage would be closer to 0.1 Which it actually is against a succubus. > [@dewk](#): > > For example i have a battleship with rapid heavy launchers, running scripts and lowslot modules, and it has no issues with drones or fast movers. No target painter needed, and if target at range, just switch script to range. Drones are another story I am not sure if they get the 500% penalty while they are using MWD but they don’t actually use MWD once they reach you they have an orbit relocity of about 600m/s Also they have like 300 HP or something and might be quite happy to die for the cause of putting your RHML into reload. 0,25 of 800DPS is still 200dps enough to kill a T1 frigate but an assault frigate or a ceptor or a garmur or a succubus or a command destroyer. Assault damage control will last through most of your ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/33 "2019-06-14T11:43:42Z")
> [@Venom\_Anarchy](#): > > Drones are another story I am not sure if they get the 500% penalty while they are using MWD I think it’s like all the other rats, when they have a “chase” attribute they get \*6 sig radius. eg the hobgoblin I has a range of 2100 m, and will enter “chase” mode for 2500 ms (“chase duration”) after the target has been out of 2800m (“chase max distance”) for 1s (“chase max delay”) ---
**Author:** ![Venom\_Anarchy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/venom_anarchy/32/490305_2.png) [@Venom\_Anarchy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Venom_Anarchy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/34 "2019-06-14T12:02:52Z")
It doesn’t mention anywhere that they get the sig penalty for MWD but my experience at shooting them I would guess that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/35 "2019-06-14T12:10:27Z")
Because every rat in game that has a chase property gets a \*6 in sig when being in chase mode. It’s not written anywhere. Now they added the sig mult for last rats. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/target-painters-and-explosion-velocity/152705/36 "2019-09-12T12:10:28Z")
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