# Tengu HAM vs. HM for C2/3 and low-sec DED **URL:** \ **Category:** PvE Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [January 30, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302 "2018-01-30T16:30:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chili\_Klaus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chili_klaus/32/246541_2.png) [@Chili\_Klaus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chili_Klaus)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/1 "2018-01-30T16:30:24Z")
Hi, it looks like T3 boats got an overhaul with subsystems, so I’m trying to figure out what’s best for C2/3 and low-sec DED. It seems like you can actually make a good fit now and keep a cloak + probe launcher. My question is regarding HAM vs. HM launchers, I can see all the numbers in Pyfa, but how’s it like in practical terms? I could use rigs to increase the range on HAM’s, but I don’t know if it’s worth it. Since I’m flying a non-drone ship, I also need to make sure I can even kill smaller fast targets without it taking forever. I can fly a Legion and a Proteus too, if they’re considered better for this. Also, is 75% omni tank with 400 EHP/s enough for C3? I can push it to 500, just wondering what to expect. ---
**Author:** ![erg\_cz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erg_cz/32/392645_2.png) [@erg\_cz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/erg_cz)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/2 "2018-01-31T07:41:05Z")
HAM with rage in C2 will keep you out of range longer, than it is comfortable. And Javelin will slow you down cause of low DPS. But still doable. Best Tengu fit for C3 is Loki 😉 [Loki, C3: Maximum DPS] Power Diagnostic System II Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Thukker Large Cap Battery Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor Loki Defensive - Adaptive Defense Node Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter Hobgoblin II x2 Hammerhead II x3 Of cause you are welcome to replace 2 high slots with probe launcher and cloak (you can skip Power diagnostic system if you dismount one laser) [Loki, C3: Maximum DPS covert op] Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Domination Ballistic Control System Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Adaptive Invulnerability Field Thukker Large Cap Battery Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Nova Javelin Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Ancillary Current Router II Loki Core - Augmented Nuclear Reactor Loki Defensive - Covert Reconfiguration Loki Offensive - Launcher Efficiency Configuration Loki Propulsion - Wake Limiter Hobgoblin II x2 Hammerhead II x3 This way you get 45 km range (NPC cruiser) but you can apply only about 500 DPS untill drones catch up (660 DPS with drones) ---
**Author:** ![Chili\_Klaus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chili_klaus/32/246541_2.png) [@Chili\_Klaus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chili_Klaus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/3 "2018-02-01T04:12:15Z")
Loki is the only T3 I can’t fly 😕 But I can see it being quite useful with drones and not being locked to 1 damage type. Though If range is so important, isn’t it better to just go HM, and then use rigs for rigors and flares? That’d pretty much make fury missiles useful on all ships but the smallest elite frigs. It’s almost 700 dps @ 70 km range. For Tengu that is. Also, why are you using a cap battery? Is that for neut reasons? ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/4 "2018-02-01T06:19:11Z")
> [@Chili\_Klaus](#): > > Also, why are you using a cap battery? Is that for neut reasons? Yes and no. The cap battery will increase your overall capacitor pool and regeneration time. PVE activities require your ship to be cap stable with all the modules on or at least a long enough time to deal with the threat(s) you will be facing. You will have an easy time in a class 2 wormhole but in a class 3 one, you want to be cap stable in the anomalies - especially the sleeper data and relic sites. I prefer heavy missiles but that is up to you, just keep in mind that you bring a ton of ammo when using HAMs. If you happen to stumble upon a black hole effect wormhole (looks like a pancreas from the inside), all missiles will get decent range and application bonus. In a magnetar effect wormhole, I would even go so far and advise you to refit for rapid light launchers. Always look out for combat probes. Now go out there and make money! ---
**Author:** ![erg\_cz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erg_cz/32/392645_2.png) [@erg\_cz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/erg_cz)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/5 "2018-02-01T08:56:40Z")
> [@Chili\_Klaus](#): > > Also, why are you using a cap battery? Is that for neut reasons? Neut reasons will force you into cap booster, battery[just not enough](https://zkillboard.com/kill/66312635/). But since minmatar ships capacitors are quick in recharging and low in capacity, battery helps a lot to be cap stable. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/tengu-ham-vs-hm-for-c2-3-and-low-sec-ded/54302/6 "2018-05-02T08:56:54Z")
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