# Thanks for the information **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 2, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316 "2021-03-02T20:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astelon_bheskagor/32/360222_2.png) [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astelon_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/21 "2021-03-03T15:02:50Z")
> [@Ash\_Beldrulf](#): > > Simple fixes. > > 1. Put all the Ore back to pre 2017 numbers. > 2. Remove all NPC miners. > 3. Remove all Bloodraider FoBs from High Sec until the moon are profitable again. > 4. If you nerf the reward, nerf the risk! Why would you want to do this ? We can just add a button on the industry panel that will simply just give you the minerals for free when you load a BPO/BPC. Unbelievable, how some people complicate things. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/22 "2021-03-03T15:08:12Z")
I’m not aware of it. Maybe you can expound on that but I can find out on my own also if I care to. What does wardec have to do with CCP nerfing rewards but not risks? ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/23 "2021-03-03T15:09:27Z")
> [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](#): > > Why would you want to do this ? We can just add a button on the industry panel that will simply just give you the minerals for free when you load a BPO/BPC Hey, there’s an idea 😀 > [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](#): > > Unbelievable, how some people complicate things 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/24 "2021-03-03T15:32:15Z")
> [@Han\_Zealot](#): > > I’m not aware of it. Maybe you can expound on that but I can find out on my own also if I care to. > What does wardec have to do with CCP nerfing rewards but not risks? Well the OP said ‘where is the nerf to risks?’ The answer being they already did it. A big nerf infact. Now it’s possible to enjoy all the benefits of a corp whilst still being immune to wardecs. The nerf to rewards we’re seeing now is balancing that massive change in 2018 (and arguably all wardec nerfs since 2012). ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/26 "2021-03-03T15:40:31Z")
And I wrote that I wouldn’t argue with you on that based on what I think CCP can do with their game, which is: everything and anything they want. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/27 "2021-03-03T15:51:54Z")
Thanks for that summary! I have not yet watched the stream, but if what you say is true I have more confidence that CCP is doing the right thing regarding the economy; last year it was time the endless riskless influx of minerals and ISK was reduced and I’m glad they continue these efforts. All I hear is ‘Pay is too low, I want no risk for it to be fair!’ EVE isn’t fair and risk is a big part of the game, you’re expecting the wrong things. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/28 "2021-03-03T15:58:13Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > What we have been getting is reduced and decimated reward with unmitigated risk. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I think some people forget what a massive nerf wardecs got in 2018. Yep. 5chars ---
**Author:** ![Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astelon_bheskagor/32/360222_2.png) [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astelon_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/29 "2021-03-03T16:15:33Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I think some people forget what a massive nerf wardecs got in 2018. It was not a nerf , but a proper balance . Yet again you spread false information. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/30 "2021-03-03T17:21:54Z")
> [@Astelon\_Bheskagor](#): > > It was not a nerf , but a proper balance . Yet again you spread false information. And now they are ‘properly balancing’ rewards. You see how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 6:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/31 "2021-03-03T18:46:58Z")
If you go in game and look at my bio, the two channel links at the bottom have sample fits for what the Bus hands out, Basically a frig, dessie and cruiser for each race (plus the exploration ship). What a newbro gets depends on their age and what station they meet the Bus is. 0-7 days they get a racially appropriate fitted out frigate etc. Donations are accepted but I would prefer a player stay than my getting their stuff. m ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/32 "2021-03-03T20:02:30Z")
Miners are generally some of the least intelligent players in the game. Not _all_, and there are indeed some smart/industrious miners out there running efficient and secure large-scale operations, but _most_ are completely brainlet-level. I guess it makes sense considering they choose to do what they do. And as such, they simply don’t understand the very, _very_ basic supply/demand relationship. If yields are cut by half but mineral prices double, brainlet miners will _still_ scream bloody murder as if you’re cutting into them with a knife. Most of them don’t even _look_ at mineral prices. They just see the amount of ore they’re getting, and judge everything based on _that_. To try to explain to them that they’re actually better off today than before, not only because the rise in mineral prices accounts for the yield impacts, but also because mining now commands a slightly larger proportion of the total economy (and since wealth is _relative_, this means they’re actually making more than they made before), is a **complete waste of time**. They’re incapable of logic, or even basic mathematics. I’ve _rarely_ met miners who talked, wrote, and thought as people of merely _average_ intelligence. Even high-sec mission-runners are above them, as their chosen combat-oriented activity requires _some_ degrees of planning, calculating, and critical thinking. Miners will never be able to comprehend that the only real practical effect of CCP’s recent changes is shifting risk away from active players, and to AFK ones. All they understand is that someone is tearing the loaf of bread away from their hands as they’re trying to take a bite. They’re like machines, or very simplistic animals, going through their rote, mechanical motions without being truly conscious of what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/33 "2021-03-03T20:39:13Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > They’re like machines, or very simplistic animals, going through their rote, mechanical motions without being truly conscious of what they’re doing. On Autopilot throughout their gameplay, eh? 😅 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/34 "2021-03-03T20:56:09Z")
Something like that. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against them as people. They live their lives, go to work, deal with family, etc. But there are always signs of a sheltered, cattle-like existence. They should be provided _opportunity_, but denied the ability to _shape policy_, which is something they do not by virtue of intent, but as kind of a _physical_ response to stimuli. It’s critical that CCP doesn’t listen to them, not because they’re less important than other types of players, but because they don’t have the critical thinking capacity to come to conclusions that are beneficial, workable, and efficient. Systemic scientific/social progress, the collective good, and future planning are not considerations for them. Asking them what they want will almost invariably result in a metaphorically-distilled response of “why, um, I think I’d like to take another bite now if I may, thank you very much!” If you’ve ever seen Idiocracy or read The Time Machine, _that’s_ the sort of system we’d devolve into if these people get their way. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/35 "2021-03-04T02:51:02Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against them as people. They live their lives, go to work, deal with family, etc. But there are always signs of a sheltered, cattle-like existence I think they all need to be wiped out from the face of the earth but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/36 "2021-03-04T03:13:03Z")
Whoa, easy there, Heinrich. You’re going to need _somebody_ to flip your hamburger. ---
**Author:** ![Han\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/han_zealot/32/300893_2.png) [@Han\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Han_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/37 "2021-03-04T03:17:44Z")
Clone technology is just about perfected. Who needs _them_ when I can have a few clones of myself to do my bidding? Not only that but robots can do that mindless work. They don’t ask for raises and there is no hygiene issues to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dannboi_ofthehanger/32/257180_2.png) [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dannboi_OftheHanger)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/39 "2021-03-04T14:24:35Z")
i would totally agree to anything that stops AFK income. That includes both AFK cloak camping, afk mining, afk ratting, afk …well anyting!! I’d put a max 10 cycles of cloak usable in succesion before the module blows up, I’d put bigger rats on afk miners (drop a dread on their ass, even in HS mining spot) And limit the ticks from bounties, but increse the LP reward in return ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/40 "2021-03-04T16:03:20Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > EDIT: However I cannot assume that they always think about income from logic/reason perspective of their activity as the value of doing it, some may just have a materialistic addiction to creating more stuff simply out of obsession or compulsion more than an economic attitude of profit and value from their activities with concern to supply and demand. > > Maybe all they really want is to spend more time and effort making stuff and the ISK at the end of the day has absolutely no impact on their reasoning. If only we could convince them to ween themselves off of Eve and go play a farming simulator or something…but of course as you say, flipping burgers, etc…gotta keep some of them around for our own needs because I got better things to do like shoot at them while they do it. I _do_ think that they’re motivated by greed/gain/wealth, like pretty much all players, or human beings in general. Where it becomes _weird_ is that most high-sec miners, for example, are likely **net-negative** from their activity. Aside from those running tanked, boosted Procurer/Skiff/Orca combos (likely botting, too), I really doubt that _most_ plain old solo high-sec miners actually turn a profit because of ganking, hostile NPCs, and too much competition for rocks. It’s like some kind of extremely long-term form of the gambler’s fallacy with them. The game would actually be a better place if they played _rationally_. Their ignorance hurts the entire environment. Also, considering all this talk about EVE players being “smarter” than average, EVE seems to attract a disproportionate amount of these cattle-like automatons. There’s just something about this game that draws in these “relax after a hard day of work by pew-pewing some rocks to make some iskies” people like moths to a flame. The proportion of such people is _not_ as high in real life as in this game. > [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](#): > > stops AFK income. > > That includes both AFK cloak camping How does AFK cloaking generate income? ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/42 "2021-03-04T17:19:26Z")
> [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](#): > > That includes both AFK cloak camping, afk mining, afk ratting, afk …well anyting!! Back in the days when moons were AFK passive income, EVE was a much better place. More active, more involved, less grindy. I want that back. This focus on more active gameplay has led to nothing but more annoyance, less fun, more grind, more busywork and above all much more imblance because CCP, in their infinite wisdom, forgot to change the underlying systems beforehand because those systems were not meant for more active gameplay. It’s funny how a guy in a war-dec immune corp wants to see more active gameplay when he himself hides from one portion of active gameplay. Talk about hypocrisy. If you want to have more active gameplay, how about you get out of your comfort zone first and participate in more active gameplay first before you demand more of that for other people. ---
**Author:** ![Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dannboi_ofthehanger/32/257180_2.png) [@Dannboi\_OftheHanger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dannboi_OftheHanger)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2021, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316/43 "2021-03-05T09:24:53Z")
To think you think i only have 1 char :'D I do several activities at once, i use a char for this forum that has 0 zkillboard status for a reason. (and raising ratings for corp is just another job in eve online, much like your camping/hunting/selling. Also if i dont want to war or engage in PVP, that is my choice. Much like it is your choice not to engage in an activity you dont wanna engage. Mind you, to raise standings effectively you cant afk farm anything. It requires active gameplay. Hance why its payed good. Afk cloak camping is isk generation prevention for active players. Cous afk ones wont care if thers a red dot in the skies [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/thanks-for-the-information/298316.md?page=3)