# The 2023 ganking is good (or Ebil) megathread **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [January 4, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430 "2023-01-04T01:12:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/164 "2023-01-22T11:21:06Z")
šŸæ 5 char ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/165 "2023-01-22T11:21:26Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Are you sayingā€¦ Just when I thought I could safely delete the Cathy Newman picā€¦ ![newman](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/6/2/56271f9b33fac1c079964d3482f8d650cc71c48f.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/166 "2023-01-22T11:53:09Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Oh, evidence, that nasty and highly irrelevant thing when it doesnā€™t suit your purpose in a thread ? Do you, by any chance, have evidence that it _is not_ the core of EvEā€™s success ? I think itā€™s clear neither of us have evidence one way or the other, so making the claim is pointless. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > CCP does have that evidence you seek. I doubt even he does. There are too many variables. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Itā€™s like asking for evidence that gravity exists. No, itā€™s not. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Thatā€™s more than enough for a niche game, tyvm. Letā€™s keep the efforts and attention focused on the Main Game. I agree, so stop making comparisons to products where variations are created alongside the primary product. The main problem with the argument that EVE has always been a certain way and therefore should stay that way is that when taken as an absolute it means that nothing will ever change at all. Things have to change for the game to evolve so what it really comes down to is whether or not the things CCP want to change fit your preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/167 "2023-01-22T12:14:20Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Things have to change for the game to evolve No they donā€™t. Once again you are inventing a totally bogus narrative. Nothing ā€˜hasā€™ to change or ā€˜evolveā€™. And certainly not to the point where it is no longer recognisable as the original. Generally if developers want to go down a totally different route they create a new game. They donā€™t alter the core mechanics of an existing game and turn it into something it never was. The whole ā€˜evolveā€™ thing is just pure nonsense. There are people out there still playing Space Invaders and Brick Out precisely because they are retro and have not ā€˜evolvedā€™. I still play the original Team Fortress Classic onlineā€¦25 years old. When people play a game they want to play _that_ gameā€¦not some ā€˜evolvedā€™ 2023 version that is nothing like the original. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/168 "2023-01-22T12:36:26Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > No they donā€™t. Is this your opinion or a statement of fact? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > And certainly not to the point where it is no longer recognisable as the original. So what change would make EVE unrecognizable as EVE? And why have previous massive changes not made it unrecognizable? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Generally if developers want to go down a totally different route they create a new game. They donā€™t alter the core mechanics of an existing game and turn it into something it never was. CCP have changed loads of core mechanics throughout the gameā€™s history. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The whole ā€˜evolveā€™ thing is just pure nonsense. Then you go ahead and make an MMO then freeze it in time. CCP clearly doesnā€™t share that view which is why they still pay developers to continue to improve and modernize the game. Iā€™d wager that most of the mechanics you play with and enjoy either didnā€™t exist when EVE launched or didnā€™t look anything like they look now. ---
**Author:** ![Clone\_Nr007](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clone_nr007/32/350156_2.png) [@Clone\_Nr007](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clone_Nr007)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/169 "2023-01-22T12:37:04Z")
> [@Eniarc](#): > > How, in a future that sure as ā– ā– ā– ā–  would not accept your behaviour or beliefs, and would have dusted you at least 2 thousand years earlier would it be okay to suggest there is some kind of equality or reality in a mob of idiots destroying and disrupting progress? Pirates have existed since Man first took to the sea. It isnā€™t a stretch to assume they would also exist in space controlled by galactic empires. The nobility back then also used to call pirates ā€˜idiotsā€™ but it was ok to hire them as Privateers wasnā€™t it? They were then ā€˜okā€™ werenā€™t they? > [@Eniarc](#): > > Do you honestly believe the future has your blood reserved? Or that maybe parasites like code or them other morons are going to exist? Why not? How do you know they wouldnā€™t exist in a few thousand years? Fact is _no one_ knows so dwelling on that ridiculous line of questioning is not only a waste but also a lack of imagination. > [@Eniarc](#): > > CCP are exstatic with your level of misunderstanding I guess youā€™re psychic then. How do I feel this very moment? > [@Eniarc](#): > > Lol While you argue about whatā€™s right and wrong about a future you obviously cannot fathom The world of EVE was better than fathomed, it was imaged then created in a virtual environment. Not very difficult for people with imagination. > [@Eniarc](#): > > normal humans who pay to entertain a desire of something that maybe resembles a slightly futuristic space adventure are continuously becomming fodder for psychopaths Getting attacked in space is part of that adventure. There is no ā€˜adventureā€™ without thrills and risks. Look at the biggest adventurer of all time, Indiana Jones. He gets the sh- beat out of him throughout a movie by ā€œpsychopathsā€ and faces risks, often mortal danger but always manages to come back to his class in one piece. Thatā€™s adventure. An adventure in EVE without risks is akin to walk in the park. PvP and Ganking are essential to have an adventure in EVE. > [@Eniarc](#): > > Oh, lets entertain the idea of cloning. Really? Do you seriously think humans, in the distant future will get popped, get remapped and just seek death? Yes. First, cloning isnā€™t science fiction anymore. And second, if my body can be reconstructed like new itā€™s clear that I would take a lot more deadly risks than Iā€™m disposed to do now. I personally want my brain and nervous system meshed into a cyborg but I think thatā€™s just me. The rest of your post is disorganized ranting that makes about as much sense as a cow driving a tractor. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/170 "2023-01-22T12:47:50Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Is this your opinion or a statement of fact? Like that makes any difference when _you_ go stating pure nonsense as fact ? > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > And why have previous massive changes not made it unrecognizable? NO previous change has altered the fundamental ā€™ dont undock what you cant afford to loseā€™ ethos of the game. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > CCP clearly doesnā€™t share that view Oh here we goā€¦your amazing psychic powers again. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > they still pay developers to continue to improve and modernize the game. Well of course they do. Not least for things like graphics updates. That is NOT the same thing as altering the core dynamics of the game. But given that your entire style of arguing is so utterly dishonestā€¦Iā€™m not holding my breath on any concession of that. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/171 "2023-01-22T13:03:44Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Like that makes any difference when _you_ go stating pure nonsense as fact ? Calm down. Youā€™ve stated it like a fact but itā€™s definitely your opinion. I asked because if I pointed out that it sounds like a fact youā€™d start screaming at me that Iā€™m putting words in your mouth, so I gave you the opportunity to clarify. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > NO previous change has altered the fundamental ā€™ dont undock what you cant afford to loseā€™ ethos of the game. Thatā€™s a very bold statement. There have been countless changes that affected safety in far greater ways than any changes to ganking ever could. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Oh here we goā€¦your amazing psychic powers again. So you think basic observational skills require some sort of telepathy? If CCP donā€™t think itā€™s a good idea to evolve and change EVE why are they paying developers to continue to evolve and change EVE? > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Well of course they do. Not least for things like graphics updates. That is NOT the same thing as altering the core dynamics of the game. But they _are_ altering the dynamics of the game. Adding new ships, changing old ships, changing faction warfare, changing security status mechanics, etc. All of these recent changes. Upcoming are changes such as a complete change to the way skills are obtained. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > But given that your entire style of arguing is so utterly dishonestā€¦Iā€™m not holding my breath on any concession of that. You keep saying this but itā€™s clear the opposite is true. If I make a statement based on what youā€™ve said you scream at me that Iā€™m putting words in your mouth, if I ask a question, you refuse to answer it. You lie constantly and every single response you make is filled with hate and vitriol. And itā€™s not just with me, this is pretty much every conversation you get involved in. Iā€™m not the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![Clone\_Nr007](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/clone_nr007/32/350156_2.png) [@Clone\_Nr007](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Clone_Nr007)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/172 "2023-01-22T13:09:17Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You lie constantly and every single response you make is filled with hate and vitriol You must like it very much because youā€™ve been engaging Altara for many days now. _Or_ what you say about her isnā€™t true. Itā€™s one or the other unless youā€™re senseless. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/173 "2023-01-22T13:11:31Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The whole ā€˜evolveā€™ thing is just pure nonsense. Whatā€™s funny to me is the type of folks who bust out the word ā€œevolveā€ conveniently forget _how_ to make things evolve. That would be called ā€œsurvival of the fittestā€, a phrase referring to natural selection, which is the mechanism that drives evolutionary change. It is somewhat ironic that the folks that use rhetoric like ā€œevolveā€ instead want to introduce artificial rules to protect the people that would not be able to survive playing the game otherwise. Gamers used to use the term ā€œcancerā€ as a metaphorical insult to refer to this ironic mentality: the fake promise of ā€œpopularityā€ was analogous to the cancer cells that endlessly propagate and ā€œsurvive when they should notā€, and that cancer actually winds up parasitically harming the host instead. Analogous to Eve Online making changes to cater to players that would not survive otherwise, and in the process destroying itself. That term is probably not politically correct to use anymore ā€“ because people who have gone through actual cancer have to suffer some of the worst of any disease _and_ awful treatments ā€“ but on the flip side people still get away talking about ā€œevolvingā€, so those folks exploit this asymmetrical rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/174 "2023-01-22T13:19:57Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Whatā€™s funny to me is the type of folks who bust out the word ā€œevolveā€ conveniently forget _how_ to make things evolve. That would be called ā€œsurvival of the fittestā€, a phrase referring to natural selection, which is the mechanism that drives evolutionary change. It is somewhat ironic that the folks that use rhetoric like ā€œevolveā€ instead want to introduce artificial rules to protect the people that would not be able to survive playing the game otherwise. Iā€™ve not asked for mechanics to come in to protect people. But to your point, that would be right if we were talking about the players evolving, but since weā€™re talking about the game evolving, itā€™s the mechanics themselves that are going through the process. Itā€™s more like how a language evolves than how organisms evolve. You may have used that term but there are plenty of gamers who have absolutely no problem with the continued development of games. There certainly are some who think all change is bad though. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/175 "2023-01-22T13:24:26Z")
Blah blah blah. The entire forum knows your silly semantic games and how you twist everything around. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/176 "2023-01-22T13:55:34Z")
The entire methodology of the ā€˜evolveā€™ crowd is an endless succession of ā€™ so youā€™re saying thatā€¦?ā€™ aimed at you and ā€™ thatā€™s not what I was sayingā€™ from them. Thereā€™s never any open, honest, rational discussion. Everything is obtuse and slanted. You have to provide evidenceā€¦but they never do. Everything is wrapped up in twisted semantics designed to obfuscate. Everything they say is factā€¦whilst everything you say is just your personal opinion. They roll out ad hominem after ad hominem, then whine about ā€˜personal attackā€™ if you merely disagree. There is no other word to describe this endless dishonest charade except trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/177 "2023-01-22T14:18:28Z")
Well, stop engaging with it. Heā€™ll get board, trash the ā€œnot an altā€ spin up another and start the dance all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/178 "2023-01-22T15:31:53Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > neither of us have evidence > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I doubt even he does. There are too many variables Judging by the books he reads (and mentions in his talks sometimes), heā€™s most likely familiar with Ockhamā€™s razor. In conclusion: you admitted you donā€™t have any evidence. Which means you would like to use ā€œdoubtā€ as an argument in a discussion, for ā€œreasonsā€ šŸ„³. I wonā€™t even ask what makes you think that evidence for gravity is any different in its nature from evidence in the case of EvEā€™s success. After all, they do call themselves Crowd Control Productions. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/179 "2023-01-22T17:18:50Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > In conclusion: you admitted you donā€™t have any evidence. Which means you would like to use ā€œdoubtā€ as an argument in a discussion, for ā€œreasonsā€ Thatā€™s a strawman. My argument is that weā€™re just talking about having different opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/180 "2023-01-22T18:02:17Z")
> [@Captain\_Phil](#): > > I think I have a solution that will solve all ganking issues in highsec: Any negative security status classifies you as an outlaw, but CONCORD will only attack you if you have a criminal timer. This will allow players to proactively defend themselves against potential gankers, while also allowing gankers free roam through highsec, as long as they avoid a criminal timer. I gave you a like as I agree with dscan with you, in fact I already made a thread about it in features and ideas part of the forum (where nobody but idea-shutdown-ers are visiting). Can you however explain the quoted part? Is this an irony or how does this differ from how the game works ever since? ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/181 "2023-01-22T19:07:52Z")
Iceacid Frostpacker \> please let me AFK outside 4-4 in peace > **Cargo** > > ![bp](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/1/3/5135d7ac6bb4209a6224f05042eba93f33e3abef.jpeg) Clicked undock and was afk for a good 20 minutes to return to see someone inviting me to conversation. ![why](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/c/d/2cd6cb08ad2cbe8fe14e6113fb712aa833b6db2c.jpeg) Why would I want to chat with someone with a pilots name such as that? Ganking in Y125? What would that conversation be about anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Phil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_phil/32/439809_2.png) [@Captain\_Phil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_Phil)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/182 "2023-01-22T19:18:39Z")
What I mean is at -0.1 you become flashy red, enabling other players to attack you in highsec without CONCORD intervention. Currently, you need to be -5.0 or lower for this to be the case. Additionally, beginning at -2.0 and depending on the system security, CONCORD will pursue you in highsec even if you donā€™t have a criminal timer. What Iā€™m suggesting is to remove this mechanic and rely solely on the 15m criminal timer for CONCORD intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2023, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430/183 "2023-01-22T19:53:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Phil](#): > > What I mean is at -0.1 you become flashy red, enabling other players to attack you in highsec without CONCORD intervention. Currently, you need to be -5.0 or lower for this to be the case. Then people will just have to tag up all the way instead of to -2.0 or so. This would add a further cost to criminal activity, but not change the underlying system of social interaction around it. > [@Captain\_Phil](#): > > Additionally, beginning at -2.0 and depending on the system security, CONCORD will pursue you in highsec even if you donā€™t have a criminal timer. What Iā€™m suggesting is to remove this mechanic and rely solely on the 15m criminal timer for CONCORD intervention. CONCORD already doesnā€™t pursue you when you donā€™t have a criminal timer; faction navies do. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-2023-ganking-is-good-or-ebil-megathread/390430.md?page=10)