# The ability of a dreadnought to stand up to large fleets of small ships **URL:** \ **Category:** PvP Ships & Modules\ **Created:** [December 3, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029 "2024-12-03T11:04:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Api\_Enn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/api_enn/32/403658_2.png) [@Api\_Enn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Api_Enn)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/1 "2024-12-03T11:04:11Z")
At the moment, a fleet of several dreadnoughts is not able to resist fleets of bombers or Kikimora destroyers. I propose to create a module for KBT class ships that creates stasis field in a radius of 60 kilometers around ship. This will give KBT-class ships the ability to counter fleets of small ships. They will die just as quickly, while still being able to do good damage! This will lead to Dreadnoughts being fun to fight against fleets. Dreadnoughts will start to be used more often. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 11:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/2 "2024-12-03T11:04:55Z")
This should be good… ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/3 "2024-12-03T13:20:45Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/8/7/d87f5763f7653c62db2280f1169a40b042d3d6d0.jpeg "Solo Drift Phoenix - Marshal Kill - EVE Solo Haw Dread PvP") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymqzDKpaSSM) [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/2/2/322c9ad0a6e801c8517634cb8abeea0de161cb2d.jpeg "EVE Solo PvP: Phoenix vs Horde of over 100") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I1ZFixFJbA) [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/5/9/e590a2d67842f2538374b11cb5768818bb993d71.jpeg "Eve Solo PVP: Revelation v 60 Brave Capsuleers") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-JrGp9A7z0) What do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Rooker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rooker/32/455723_2.png) [@Rooker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rooker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/4 "2024-12-03T16:39:48Z")
I’ve been in two different chaos-fueled Dread vs Sub-Cap brawls in the last two weeks and brother, dreads do just fine against small ships. Many a Condor got blapped the other night trying to keep some Nourv Gate dreads pinned down in Kinakka. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2024, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/6 "2024-12-04T10:15:09Z")
Now we just need to tweak carriers (not necessarily supercarriers) so they have some capability vs. subcaps. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/7 "2024-12-05T13:01:00Z")
Capitals without an escort of subcaps should _always_ be vulnerable and weak against an attacking subcapital force. If anything, HAW weaponry should be nerfed, or better, removed. It shouldn’t have ever made it into the game. Dreads should be and stay siege-machinery _only_ useful to raze enemy capitals or structures, but nothing else. Yes, that includes : no NPCs, except NPC capitals/supercapitals. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/8 "2024-12-05T13:06:25Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > If anything, HAW weaponry should be nerfed, or better, removed. Perish the thought. Dreadnoughts are in a good place - don’t f\*\*k’n touch them. Now we just need to get carriers to the same level… ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/9 "2024-12-05T13:37:44Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > Perish the thought. Dreadnoughts are in a good place - don’t f\*\*k’n touch them. Now we just need to get carriers to the same level… Oh I know it won’t happen, CCP has made the mistake years ago to implement them and they are way too stubborn to correct such obivous mistakes. No worries, nothing bad will happen to them in the near future. It would need Devs with deep understanding for their game to do such things. And I agree that Carriers should be buffed, by removing FAXes and give them back their Triage Abilities. The capital balance was _way_ better before those nonsense changes that made Dreads Subcapkillers, Carriers useless and FAXes the unnessessary replacement for an ability we already had (Triage). ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/10 "2024-12-05T13:42:05Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > And I agree that Carriers should be buffed, by removing FAXes and give them back their Triage Abilities. The capital balance was _way_ better before those nonsense changes that made Dreads Subcapkillers, Carriers useless and FAXes the unnessessary replacement for an ability we already had (Triage). I don’t think FAXes will be removed anytime soon. Not that I disagree with your assessment with carriers - I just don’t see them removing an entire class of ship that players have invested and trained into. At one point carriers were **good** - where they could take on subcaps. You saw a lot of solo play - and it made sense. Then they nerfed them to oblivion and now they’re like a ginger stepchild. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2024, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/11 "2024-12-05T13:44:30Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > I don’t think FAXes will be removed anytime soon. Not that I disagree with your assessment with carriers - I just don’t see them removing an entire class of ship that players have invested and trained into. Of course not, see here: > [@Syzygium](#): > > CCP has made the mistake years ago to implement them and they are way too stubborn to correct such obivous mistakes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/12 "2024-12-06T01:31:25Z")
The Dread is not meant to take on smaller ships, such as frigates and even battleships. The Dread is a siege weapon protected by smaller ships. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/13 "2024-12-06T05:15:46Z")
That was the idea… but HAW killed that and screwed carriers out of their intended role ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/14 "2024-12-06T05:29:53Z")
We really just need to fix carriers. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/15 "2024-12-06T05:46:27Z")
At this point you either need to remove HAW for that to be possible. Or ccp needs to come down off that hill and bring capital prices back to around t2 BBs Do that and the current conduit and mjfd carriers will have a place again for small to mid sized corps. And larger groups can even use them to kick off or punish an escalation. The massive groups the current build costs were supposed to target have already adapted. Now they are just making it harder for new groups to get their foot in the door. And that’s not just caps but all ships faction cruisers+ are a joke atm. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/16 "2024-12-06T05:59:33Z")
I like the idea of HAW personally. What about just bringing the price down to T2 battleships and improving the fighter ability to hit anything (ie: un-nerf, but not to the point when they were at the high point). ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/17 "2024-12-06T06:13:44Z")
If their application is on par with HAW they won’t compete with them. They simply have too many downsides. Hell an ibis can remove 2/3 of your dps by perma jamming two fighter squads. Especially if the hull price of both stay the same. If you make their application worth while over a HAW you have to push them to a point that they end up breaking. Reducing it so that the hull+ a full hanger of fighters costs ~10% more than a t2 battleship and you can keep them the same as they are now. They’ll be disposable enough to be used to start larger fights and have the advantage over a solo dread by brining a few support sub caps. Basically they would fill the role a solo HAW does for small gangs. And be a ‘disposable’ content starter for larger groups. Ideally Dreads would be made creeper as well. To maintain balance a dread hull should be around the same price if not slightly higher than a carrier + fighters. The other drastic alternative would be to turn carriers into the support capital. Lean far more into the command bursts, tune them to be the capital ewar platform and focus their dps into the SS fighters so they could deal with small sub caps and super carrier squads. This option however i think should be reserved for t2 carriers assuming they ever do get around to continuing their plan of making unique roles that t2 caps could fill like the lancer. Edit: Just to add some numbers. If we reduce the carrier hull price to 1.5b and the t2 fighter cost by 66% a T2 with T1 rig fit nid would cost 3.8b 1.5 hull .5b fighters and 1.8b in fitting. I think this is an okay range for what they can do. Reducing the hull down to 1.2b is in my opinion the absolute lower limit simply do to the conduit ability. While i think these ships should be cheep if they get to low it basically just becomes a 1b cost to bridge a fleet. Bonus points if the naked carrier somehow lives. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/18 "2024-12-06T11:11:19Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > The other drastic alternative would be to turn carriers into the support capital. Lean far more into the command bursts, tune them to be the capital ewar platform and focus their dps into the SS fighters so they could deal with small sub caps and super carrier squads. > > This option however i think should be reserved for t2 carriers assuming they ever do get around to continuing their plan of making unique roles that t2 caps could fill like the lancer. I actually like this idea the best. Not sure we’re every going to really see “cheap, throw-away” capital ships again. ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/19 "2024-12-06T13:03:17Z")
Maybe Navy Dreads should lose some cargo capacity that would be replaced with a light drone bay. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/20 "2024-12-06T13:05:44Z")
All ships (regardless of class) should have some ability to deal with drones and frigates. Smartbombs are effective for drones. This isn’t to say you wouldn’t want to bring along some support - but a sole dreadnought or carrier shouldn’t be completely helpless. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029/21 "2024-12-06T18:41:30Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > I like the idea of HAW personally. Thats fine for you personally, but it is bad for the game. The original devs had it right: Dreads are for sieging Structures or killing enemy capitals. They should _plain suck_ at attacking anything else. To make it absolutely _mandatory_ to have a subcap supportfleet with them that shields them from subcapital swarms. I mean, it’s absolutely hilarious that a HAW dread hits even Cruisers _a lot_ better than a Battleship hits Frigates. And that at enourmeous ranges. You can like that all day long because you find it “cool” to see videos of people jumping a blinged-to-the-death Dread into a 50 man gang and ripping them apart. It stays bullcrap that should be simply removed. Because only then Carriers can have their role again - Capital Support ships with a lot less damage than Dreads, but the ability to hit Subcapitals. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-ability-of-a-dreadnought-to-stand-up-to-large-fleets-of-small-ships/470029.md?page=2)