# The Amarr / Minmatar Warzone Accord - On Loyalty and Roles **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544 "2019-11-18T20:06:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/41 "2019-11-19T19:36:20Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > It was their leaders who decided to escalate the conflict to an unprecedented level specifically to undermine the Accord. Considering the entire history of Amarr/Minmatar interaction is defined and shaped by ground assaults, I don’t think it can be called ‘unprecedented’. Certainly, it’s been a long time, but this is just a return to form. That said… > [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > I find it deeply disingenuous that many of the loudest voices criticizing this Accord were the very same people who spent years deriding the CEWPA conflict as the “Pendulum War” and claiming it had no impact on the local planetary populations. It _had_ no impact on local planetary populations[1]. That this Accord more or less _immediately_ triggered this sort of vicious response from the Amarr aristocracy was entirely predictable. This is a result of the Accord. The people behind the Accord directly predicated this response. That doesn’t mean the fighting in space hasn’t been utterly pointless in the larger scheme of things, for years. It only means that if you take away their bread and circuses distraction, the people in power will find _other_ ways to hurt people for their own enjoyment. * * * 1. As Gaven points out, there were planetary assaults and warclone actions in the warzone. However, I’ve yet to see a single non-combatant in any of the footage from those warclone actions. So I really can’t give any credence to claims that those actions had a measurable impact on local populations. ---
**Author:** ![Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaven_lok_ri/32/293159_2.png) [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaven_Lok_ri)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/42 "2019-11-19T19:36:26Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > They agreed to trade systems under a status quo where neither side had launched major ground assaults of contested worlds in the past. [This is untrue](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/ground-fighting-intensifies-across-new-eden-as-powerful-troopers-emerge/). There has been fighting on the ground throughout the course of the war, it’s just that aside from the period of open warclone activity the galactic scale news oulets have mostly found said fighting to only be of interest occasionally. The escalation here is not that it will be first major ground assault, but that it represents a shift in policy about Slave taking on part of Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/43 "2019-11-19T19:38:39Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > instead of these few mission systems being at risk you and your ilk would perpetuate a system where profiteers drive the loss of _every_ system on either side back and forth You present a false choice. Neither my ilk nor the traitors can effect the lasting change you credit to them. ---
**Author:** ![Stalking\_Mantis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stalking_mantis/32/170173_2.png) [@Stalking\_Mantis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stalking_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/44 "2019-11-19T19:51:59Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > You present a false choice. Neither my ilk nor the traitors can effect the lasting change you credit to them. We sat through years of Pendulum swings. Ever since Inferno. Pretending any of the actual combat pilots were not reeling from this reality is silly at best. But feel free to leave all this posturing and actually swing a home system? Like AVNG does and does time and again? When Arzad is taken back, and I say when not if. It will be AVNG pilots doing the majority of it. You know, I know, they know it. But feel free to prove me wrong you have a month and a half at least before we have to do it for everyone, flip Arzad before that, go on, impress me. ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/45 "2019-11-19T22:24:23Z")
> [@Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/44): > > Before this deal there were no minmatar in space to fight. You want to make war on your enemy? Go to Arzad. BUT I warn all Amarr militia pilots that if you try to regain that system or any of the other systems with 24th Imperial Crusade stations we will destroy you. Wax poetical about loyalty as much as you like. Your friends have made their choice. Your corporation’s motivations have been made clear. Their resolve to ‘destroy’ those to whom you are appealing to not discount your loyalty is clear. You were once loyal. I believe you remain so. This charade must cease. Otherwise, your decision is to allow the whims and wallets of your corpmates and collaborators corrupt your actions. Let this be another example that you can point to in future in which you proved your resolve and loyalty to The Empire. Or let it be the example everyone points to as the end of Stalking Mantis’s loyalty. The choice is yours. ---
**Author:** ![Stalking\_Mantis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stalking_mantis/32/170173_2.png) [@Stalking\_Mantis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stalking_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/46 "2019-11-19T23:25:02Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > Let this be another example that you can point to in future > in which you proved your resolve and loyalty to The Empire. Or let it be the example everyone points to as the end of Stalking Mantis’s loyalty. The choice is yours. I am making a stand Sir. Sometimes the best answer is to be bold and change the status quo. I may be wrong, BUT, IF I’m right, and the Accord results in a positive change, then it will forever be known that the Accord Holders had the vision and the resolve to take matters into their own hand. If I am wrong and nothing results from this stand, then I risk my standing with the Empire. I can be safe and keep my good standing as is, but that will not change anything and I can rest on my past laurels forever. Or I can be part of the catalyst of change everyone wants but dares not be. Something AVNG always was. “You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" Harvey Dent ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/47 "2019-11-19T23:29:23Z")
> [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](#): > > There has been fighting on the ground throughout the course of the war, it’s just that aside from the period of open warclone activity the galactic scale news oulets have mostly found said fighting to only be of interest occasionally. I’m aware of the kind of fighting that has taken place during the warclone era. I suppose what I consider a “major ground assault” and what the reporter referred to as “large scale ground fighting” have some differences. Throughout the height of the warclone conflicts system control by capsuleer militias never prevented either side from deploying ground raids. How then can one claim that it is only the actions of those who signed the Accord who have put civilian populations at risk of increased attack? I mostly find this entire discussion to be a waste of time, but it is clear to me that many of you are only here to burnish your own reputations and attack your rivals, not look for pragmatic solutions to problems that have major consequences throughout New Eden. I say again that whatever the flaws of the Accord, I respect that they took action to attempt a positive outcome. That’s more than any of the rest of you can claim to your credit in this sorry state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/48 "2019-11-19T23:31:26Z")
> [@Rinai\_Vero](#): > > they took action to attempt a positive outcome Positive for whom? ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/49 "2019-11-19T23:32:58Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Positive for whom? A bunch of thankless gits, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/50 "2019-11-19T23:36:05Z")
You understood my meaning adequately, by all means deflect. It doesn’t change that this is about profit and ego for a few. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/51 "2019-11-19T23:43:42Z")
Yes, those few who do the actual fighting in the warzone as opposed to the many parasites. ---
**Author:** ![Templar\_Dane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/templar_dane/32/132921_2.png) [@Templar\_Dane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Templar_Dane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/52 "2019-11-19T23:45:43Z")
Anyone who thinks we would do the missions, then point out to the powers-that-be that they need removed by showing everyone how absurd they are, and then stop doing them to plex for thousands of hours…for profit…is a moron. It would have been far easier for us to do nothing. Without us the warzone flips, period. Look what’s happened since we started focusing on the agent systems and stopped offensive plexing. ---
**Author:** ![Stalking\_Mantis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stalking_mantis/32/170173_2.png) [@Stalking\_Mantis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stalking_Mantis)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/53 "2019-11-19T23:48:20Z")
> [@Ascentior](#): > > Let this be another example that you can point to in future I would also like to point out that the coin has two sides on the above statement. This whole letter was an Appeal to people I admire highly in PIE to bring together and mend a schism. If positive change comes from this remember what side of the coin PIE was on. There will be no room for PIE to take any credit for anything positive that may result from this. The question is it takes no effort to play it safe, and AVNG is risking it all on a gambit that I assure you will benefit the warzone if it pays off. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/54 "2019-11-19T23:53:53Z")
Not how economics work, you’ve stockpiled collectively a tremendous amount of backpay. In closing off supply, as you lobby for. Previous peaks in return could see your asset more than double in value, based on your own boasts about your stockpiled loyalty points. That would be conservatively speaking three hundred billion reasons for you to be doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Templar\_Dane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/templar_dane/32/132921_2.png) [@Templar\_Dane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Templar_Dane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/55 "2019-11-19T23:58:48Z")
As I have already mentioned, without us plexing the warzone flips. The warzone flips and the worth of 24th LP goes up. Now, why would I (when amarr is tier 5) make a stink about the missions telling literally everyone in the galaxy how lucrative the missions are (therefore causing even more inflation as people rush to do the missions)…instead of staying quiet and continuing to do the missions? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/56 "2019-11-20T00:00:21Z")
Presumably because you still think you can cause the current system for the allocation of missions to be changed. ---
**Author:** ![Templar\_Dane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/templar_dane/32/132921_2.png) [@Templar\_Dane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Templar_Dane)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/57 "2019-11-20T00:05:19Z")
And you’re just an amarr militia slave to Maglor Shaye. ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/58 "2019-11-20T00:06:32Z")
If a positive change comes of this; you still turned your back on your loyalties, put those you should protect in harms way, and shot your brothers and sisters to achieve it. I think I know some examples of others who have done this… Nope, I can find absolutely no record of them. Odd… You do not know you history well if you believe that Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris would want anything to do with taking credit for these actions. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/59 "2019-11-20T00:07:14Z")
Accusations of slavery, and your pathological fixation with local pirates… checks out. You’re definitely the Templar Dane we know and loathe. ---
**Author:** ![Ascentior](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ascentior/32/266358_2.png) [@Ascentior](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ascentior)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544/60 "2019-11-20T00:12:25Z")
> [@Militia corruption: Breaking the Deafening Silence on Dirty Deals](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/militia-corruption-breaking-the-deafening-silence-on-dirty-deals/196136/44): > > Before this deal there were no minmatar in space to fight. You want to make war on your enemy? Go to Arzad. BUT I warn all Amarr militia pilots that if you try to regain that system or any of the other systems with 24th Imperial Crusade stations we will destroy you. I do not need to guess your intention, you have made your actions clear. You want more enemies in Amarr territories. And will destroy any Amarr who works to prevent that. Do not attempt to make a noble cause of your bloodlust. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-amarr-minmatar-warzone-accord-on-loyalty-and-roles/201544.md?page=4)