# The art of criticizing **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078 "2017-09-16T22:57:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/22 "2017-09-17T18:30:10Z")
This is the worst thread I’ve seen on these new boards. ---
**Author:** ![Makoto\_Priano](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makoto_priano/32/383919_2.png) [@Makoto\_Priano](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makoto_Priano)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/23 "2017-09-17T19:25:26Z")
> [@Mika\_Firestorm](#): > > That’s obvious, Diana. You’ve been “dunking” them all over the forum. As the kids say these days, “lol.” ---
**Author:** ![Ria\_Nieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ria_nieyli/32/447728_2.png) [@Ria\_Nieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ria_Nieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/24 "2017-09-17T19:35:21Z")
That’s it, I give up. ---
**Author:** ![Mika\_Firestorm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mika_firestorm/32/302753_2.png) [@Mika\_Firestorm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mika_Firestorm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/25 "2017-09-17T22:06:36Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I had that tendency indeed. Lately I though try to reference them simply as Enemies of Caldari State rather than simply “gallente”, making a note that “The State has many enemies”. This idea isn’t really much different from calling people “gallente”. They could be mad at you for some personal reasons, not related to your professional activities. ---
**Author:** ![Mika\_Firestorm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mika_firestorm/32/302753_2.png) [@Mika\_Firestorm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mika_Firestorm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/26 "2017-09-17T22:13:14Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > This is the worst thread I’ve seen on these new boards. Awww, I feel sad ☹ How about making it a bit more fun, for example, lets turn it into a game! You can leave here for me any (original) reply to criticise, or, even more fun, link to me critics so I could rate them (comments as replies to original posts, please don’t bring in that crap that people are tossing at each other). Rules for rating will be quite simple, I’ll just follow the guidelines I’ve posted and put +1 if the comment follows them, and -1 if it violates. Maybe even add a couple more points for scoring, then we will sum it all up. The higher positive score will show how good critics they are. The lower negative score will show how good jackasses they are. Fun? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kul\_Shaishi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kul_shaishi/32/245841_2.png) [@kul\_Shaishi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kul_Shaishi)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/27 "2017-09-17T22:24:12Z")
Other than the fact that you’re in the members of the Kim clique ---
**Author:** ![Mika\_Firestorm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mika_firestorm/32/302753_2.png) [@Mika\_Firestorm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mika_Firestorm)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/28 "2017-09-17T22:50:33Z")
> [@kul\_Shaishi](#): > > Other than the fact that you’re in the members of the Kim clique And we have the first contestant! Let’s score this one. 1. Address of ideas, not a person. A strong -1 here. 2. Helpful or taunting comment. It isn’t helpful definitely. As for taunting? I said, I am proud to fly with Caldari. 0 goes here. 3. Reasonable or obvious comment for +1, dubious or straightforward false comment for -1. Strong -1 here. 4. Polite or disrespectful comment. It’s just 0 here. Total score for @kul_Shaishi: -2 points! ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/29 "2017-09-18T02:24:20Z")
Well, you can’t improve unless you recognise what is wrong with you first. If you are self-aware enough, you don’t need others to point out what’s wrong with you. However, it’s painful to acknowledge that there’s something wrong with you (especially considering how many people in the cluster treats life as a story where they are the main character. It hurts to admit that the hero has some really fatal flaws, especially when you are the hero), which is why others may have to point that out. Occasionally very bluntly. Like a shovel to the face. ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/30 "2017-09-18T02:38:23Z")
Frigates can fly with no other crew than the capsuleer, with no impact on performance. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/31 "2017-09-18T02:46:54Z")
((Has that actually been made official? Thought they required like 12-16 or something like that and only corvettes/shuttles were 0-1. There was a page on the wiki back in the day with lists for each ship class. Honestly don’t know, not challenging ya on it.)) ---
**Author:** ![Coulter\_Phelps](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coulter_phelps/32/324183_2.png) [@Coulter\_Phelps](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coulter_Phelps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/32 "2017-09-18T02:57:33Z")
((CCP falcon confirmed the crew sizes on the wiki are canon back in 2014, Google “eve ship crews” and its the first link that comes up, so frigs are 1-3 crew)) ---
**Author:** ![Elmund\_Egivand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elmund_egivand/32/11038_2.png) [@Elmund\_Egivand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elmund_Egivand)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/33 "2017-09-18T03:23:15Z")
((Frigates of EVE retconned that and stated that capsuleer frigates operate with crew of 1, the capsuleer. Everything runs on automation.)) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/34 "2017-09-18T03:27:24Z")
((Verifying Elmund’s reading: Frigates of EvE is current canon. Many of the cross-sections make it pretty hard to see where you’d put additional crew, anyway. CCP, alas, has not been shy about shifting reality under us, and we must shift with it. 🙂 Shall we get back IC?)) ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/35 "2017-09-18T03:33:16Z")
(( Welp, I learned something new today. Tnx everyone and ya, sorry IC it is heh. )) ---
**Author:** ![Viktor\_Revon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/viktor_revon/32/23106_2.png) [@Viktor\_Revon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Viktor_Revon)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/36 "2017-09-18T06:36:53Z")
This is a wonderful post, Ms. Firestorm. I was rather disappointed by the majority of criticism in the thread and even my own wasn’t quite that good due to simple lack of that which to go off of. Meanwhile, I would like to comment on the Diana Kim comments here. (Not the ones from her, but more so about her and you) I must admit you have a very similar facial structure, and your speech pattern is very similar as well. (Though you have more personality than Ms. Kim) Though both can be either a sign of extreme admiration or just coincidence. That is all I will say on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 8:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/37 "2017-09-18T08:20:38Z")
> [@Mika\_Firestorm](#): > > Lord Tash-Murkon said that ones shouldn’t rebuff a critical statements. And with this I can’t agree as well. Critical statements should be made reasonable, and if they are, rebuffing them shouldn’t work. But what if they aren’t? Then the author should be able to rebuff that easily. You shouldn’t defend weak critics from rebuttal. Because critics should be able to prove that the wrong thing is wrong, and they can skip that part only if it is too obvious. And if you post criticism too fast without thorough investigation, that even you yourself might doubt your words, than you are not a critic, I’m afraid this makes little sense. It’s essentially rambling, although I appreciate what you were trying to achieve. “Critical statements should be made reasonable”. Did you perhaps mean that a critical statement should be reasonably accurate, or reasonably thought out? “Reasonable” as a rating for criticism is very much in the realms of personal perspective and any three people may have a different view on this. Saying one should only criticise if it is reasonable means that it would be necessary to define what both parties consider to be reasonable before progressing further. Also he wasn’t stating that critics shouldn’t be rebuffed, simply that the purpose of his thread was to take the criticism in good spirit and not bog down the thread with endless rebuttals and name calling. So as a criticism to you I’d suggest that you attempt to fully comprehend something before rebutting it. Final point, it should be “Then you are not a critic” not “Than you are not a critic” I keep seeing this error crop up and I can only assume there’s a bug in the latest iteration of the translation software. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/38 "2017-09-18T11:34:59Z")
Actually I meant to type something else. You see, I recently bought one of those fancy smart comm devices. Possibly too smart. If I do as much as glance in its direction, it types "This is the worst thread I’ve seen on these new boards ". And this is why the Federation must be destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Mika\_Firestorm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mika_firestorm/32/302753_2.png) [@Mika\_Firestorm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mika_Firestorm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/39 "2017-09-18T11:58:56Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > I’m afraid this makes little sense. It’s essentially rambling, although I appreciate what you were trying to achieve. “Critical statements should be made reasonable”. Did you perhaps mean that a critical statement should be reasonably accurate, or reasonably thought out? “Reasonable” as a rating for criticism is very much in the realms of personal perspective and any three people may have a different view on this. Saying one should only criticise if it is reasonable means that it would be necessary to define what both parties consider to be reasonable before progressing further. Also he wasn’t stating that critics shouldn’t be rebuffed, simply that the purpose of his thread was to take the criticism in good spirit and not bog down the thread with endless rebuttals and name calling. So as a criticism to you I’d suggest that you attempt to fully comprehend something before rebutting it. > > Final point, it should be “Then you are not a critic” not “Than you are not a critic” I keep seeing this error crop up and I can only assume there’s a bug in the latest iteration of the translation software. It just means, that you should first read what you are criticising. Then you should understand what it is about. Then you should find something you disagree or consider wrong. Then you should write clearly what was wrong and what you disagree with. And finally, you shall bring argument to prove your point, if it wasn’t obvious yet. To show how to do that wrong, I’ll cite one of your own replies, that you yourself got famous for in this IGS (cited [here](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/keep-clean-the-place-where-do-you-live/22658) as > I believe Diana is asking that you transmit more of these messages to her personally. One a day should be perfect. ) I think you can understand now, that I’ll say I am not really interested in arguing or discussing anything with you any further. The only thing I’ve left to add, is that I think, that if you are so good in spotting translation software mistakes, you should leave IGS and join instead quality assurance team for the translators, because by doing that you’ll make both IGS and translators better. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/40 "2017-09-18T12:06:39Z")
OK so, to get this clear, as an example of poor criticism, you’re quoting one of my posts which isn’t a criticism? That is akin to my posting a picture of a Gallente ground car and stating that it is a poor spaceship. I think you should probably reconsider your approach when it comes to communicating with others. Also, citing a post linked by another of your associates on Diana’s positive propaganda payroll does not constitute a “post that got me famous”. I’m now going to wait to see whether you respond to this by a) once again either dodging criticism levelled upon you, b) decrying me for daring to criticise you when in the above post you have broken your own rules in the original post on this thread, or whether Diana will weigh in to cry about people victimising her in threads that she’s not even involved in, after you contact her to let her know how mean we’re all being. Fourth option, ms Hanaya shows up to tell me how I’m doing something to not keep clean the place where I do live. Your move. ---
**Author:** ![Mika\_Firestorm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mika_firestorm/32/302753_2.png) [@Mika\_Firestorm](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mika_Firestorm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078/41 "2017-09-18T12:29:12Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > Your move. My move will be a pronounced loud wish for a block button on these forums. Why? Because it perfectly describes my feeling both about your person and quality of your posting. And I am not interested in commenting or explaining my feelings further. Take that as is. > [@Mika\_Firestorm](#): > > I think you can understand now, that I’ll say I am not really interested in arguing or discussing anything with you any further. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-art-of-criticizing/25078.md?page=3)