# The Case For Strat Cruisers in Abyss **URL:** \ **Category:** Missions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833 "2018-09-28T17:26:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sboycole](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sboycole/32/24387_2.png) [@Sboycole](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sboycole)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/1 "2018-09-28T17:26:09Z")
First before this gets raged, I do agree with keeping them out of most Abyss tiers, however, there is a solid case for using them in T4-T5 instances, this would probably add to the number of people doing them, thus making the ships cheaper to build, fit, and fly. In all reality we are already risking more than a T3C is market wise, while that is the higher SP pilots still doing them. We are not losing anything restricting them just to the top highest difficulty tiers, as they still won’t be blitzing the lowers, and we would probably have more player engagement. As it stands now, I fly a 2 Billion isk gila fit into a site, with an additional 2 bil in implants to make the site work well. We could possibly eliminate this by simply using a fit T3C to do the same thing. This would yes reduce risk, but in the end, is CCP trying to fail abyss, or make it work. I can’t see them going through all the hassle of making something new just to see it flop. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/2 "2018-09-28T17:39:40Z")
All ship restrictions disprove the ‘sandbox’ the ‘elite pvpers’ always claim the game is. Why train for a variety of ships/mods when most content puts restrictions on it. Allow capitals in hisec, just can’t light a cyno in hisec. see, balance. If someone wants to run level 1’s in a Thanatos, let them if they have the skills. ---
**Author:** ![Bent\_Barrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bent_barrel/32/281474_2.png) [@Bent\_Barrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bent_Barrel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/3 "2018-09-30T16:17:18Z")
What I do not understand is why the restriction is to a specific class. Usually it is UP TO a specific class so anything below can try as well. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/4 "2018-09-30T18:38:25Z")
> [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > just can’t light a cyno in hisec. That would be module restriction, which disproves the “sandbox” too. ---
**Author:** ![Steveo\_Mowi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steveo_mowi/32/371605_2.png) [@Steveo\_Mowi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steveo_Mowi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/5 "2018-09-30T20:31:33Z")
Basically no … Why ? Cause your 2B gila doesn’t tank as much and doesn’t do as much damage as a 2B t3+2b pod. T3C are way to overpower in abyssal sites and They would destroy the whole risk of abyssal sites. Imagen a 800 dps and 2000 dps Omni tank Loki runs a t5 in 5 mins without any prob. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/6 "2018-10-01T02:07:43Z")
SP loss would be delicious. I support it. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/7 "2018-10-01T15:44:55Z")
> [@Sboycole](#): > > thus making the ships cheaper to build, fit, and fly. And yet the opposite happened with the gila, and the fittings for the gila, when it became the premier ship to fly in abyssal sites. The prices skyrocketed. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/8 "2018-10-01T15:48:54Z")
> [@Rocket\_Hellfire](#): > > Allow capitals in hisec, just can’t light a cyno in hisec. see, balance. If someone wants to run level 1’s in a Thanatos, let them if they have the skills. The problem with capitals in hisec isnt the fear that they will somehow run missions. Its that they will enter wars and be used against other players while at the same time be nearly impossible to take down with a reasonable amount of people, even through ganks. Do you really want to see every hisec belt filled with rorquals, mining afk in almost perfect safety because of the fact that they are in NPC corps? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 3:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/9 "2018-10-02T03:02:19Z")
> [@Steveo\_Mowi](#): > > Basically no … > Why ? > Cause your 2B gila doesn’t tank as much and doesn’t do as much damage as a 2B t3+2b pod. > T3C are way to overpower in abyssal sites and They would destroy the whole risk of abyssal sites. > Imagen a 800 dps and 2000 dps Omni tank Loki runs a t5 in 5 mins without any prob. I think you missed something in your statement. “a 800 dps and 2000 dps” ? My omni tanked Gila already does 950-1k … yours doesn’t ? LOL ? W T F ? L2 fit issues ? And 2000 DPS ? LOL W T F again ? Which cruiser fit for running abyss can do 2k DPS ? Can you post the fit for us ? Even if its a T3C, can you post the fit for us ? Do keep in mid you’re posting fits for abyss, so stuff like “fleet fits” with pocket heals and pocket cap feeds etc. do not apply. Only significant difference on T3Cs would be overheating. And it would be very significant, you can OH a T3C for 2-3 x longer then other ships because of the bonus on T3C skills themselves + thermodynamics skill. Now an overheated Loki will do 1150-1250 DPS vs its regular 950-1k and its tank can hold out for much longer. Also some sub systems give additional overheat bonusses, those might be OP. People that know how to use them will do so to get through the tough spots. But that is all good, less need for implants and boosters = more profit and right now profit is crap and needs a significant boost. So again win - win situation. All in all, it’d be the lesser of the 2 evils. I’d rather have more then less people running abyss. Mistakes will still be made and ships will still be lost and with T3Cs, skillpoints will be lost. if it gets more players in the content and helps us get away from the Gila meta, I am all for it. ---
**Author:** ![Anize\_Oramara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anize_oramara/32/206986_2.png) [@Anize\_Oramara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anize_Oramara)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/10 "2018-10-02T08:55:32Z")
The 2k DPS was tank, not applied DPS to NPCs. ---
**Author:** ![Ildrara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ildrara/32/56659_2.png) [@Ildrara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ildrara)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/11 "2018-10-02T09:41:00Z")
Spend the same amount on a properly fit T2 ship instead of using a T1 ship. ---
**Author:** ![Hlamon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hlamon/32/241936_2.png) [@Hlamon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hlamon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/12 "2018-10-03T14:45:34Z")
If T3C will be allowed in Abyss there will be at least some variety in ships and fittings, which is good in my books. Some tryhards will do abyss sites faster? This is even better - triglavian stuff will be more cheap and accessible for general use. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/13 "2018-10-03T14:52:11Z")
> [@Hlamon](#): > > Some tryhards not “some”. everybody.because it will be better than anything else. the T3C have a huge tank. my pve fit loki has 1400 ehp/s cold, without any implant, and deals 600 DPS with faction HAM. ---
**Author:** ![Hlamon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hlamon/32/241936_2.png) [@Hlamon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hlamon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/14 "2018-10-03T14:52:54Z")
Well, at least there 4 of T3C’s. And Gila still be good enough. Market will filter out inefficient fits and approaches. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/15 "2018-10-03T15:23:03Z")
> [@Hlamon](#): > > And Gila still be good enough nope. no ship will be as good as T3C. with the loss of the pod, the ship cost will be on par with the pod cost,that is comprised as a whole. the small increase of price of T3C vs gila will be neglectible when compared to the whole cost of HG crystals - because in abyss losing your ship is also losing your pod. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/16 "2018-10-03T16:03:47Z")
> [@Sboycole](#): > > First before this gets raged, I do agree with keeping them out of most Abyss tiers, however, there is a solid case for using them in T4-T5 instances, this would probably add to the number of people doing them, thus making the ships cheaper to build, fit, and fly. In all reality we are already risking more than a T3C is market wise, while that is the higher SP pilots still doing them. We are not losing anything restricting them just to the top highest difficulty tiers, as they still won’t be blitzing the lowers, and we would probably have more player engagement. As it stands now, I fly a 2 Billion isk gila fit into a site, with an additional 2 bil in implants to make the site work well. We could possibly eliminate this by simply using a fit T3C to do the same thing. This would yes reduce risk, but in the end, is CCP trying to fail abyss, or make it work. I can’t see them going through all the hassle of making something new just to see it flop. When I think about it more seriously, I do think they could be allowed into Abyss but maybe with some restrictions. Maybe allow the ships but disallow some sub systems. I do think the active rep defensive sub systems and the cap core sub systems would be OP as they would let players trivialize some of the spawns that make Abyss challenging. If you were to just disallow those, but let the ships in I think they might be OK. They would still be plenty powerful and on par or in some cases surpass the current meta ships / fits. But it would be reasonable and allow for more player choices which is always good. Their overheat abilities would still be very powerful inside Abyss, but I think that would take far too much development time and thus be impractical to alter. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/17 "2018-10-03T19:11:15Z")
If i recal it correctly they wanted to add a new PvE mode and restricted it to Cruisers since they are underrepresented when it comes to typical PvE activities. ---
**Author:** ![Xebov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xebov/32/99847_2.png) [@Xebov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xebov)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/18 "2018-10-03T19:48:36Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > Do you really want to see every hisec belt filled with rorquals, mining afk in almost perfect safety because of the fact that they are in NPC corps? Really? You mean like the Orcas that already sit semi AFK all night at Moon Mining Belts? > [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > I do think the active rep defensive sub systems and the cap core sub systems would be OP as they would let players trivialize some of the spawns that make Abyss challenging. If you were to just disallow those, but let the ships in I think they might be OK. This shows the issue with PvE very well. Players always try to make things as easy as possible but the game doesnt offer a variety of ships that are on par. The Gila is a very good example for this. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/19 "2018-10-03T20:13:39Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > You mean like the Orcas that already sit semi AFK all night at Moon Mining Belts? Atleast orcas dont mine with the same equivalency of 5 hulks. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833/20 "2018-10-03T20:28:16Z")
> [@Xebov](#): > > This shows the issue with PvE very well. Players always try to make things as easy as possible but the game doesnt offer a variety of ships that are on par. The Gila is a very good example for this. That is partially true. IMHO the Gila DPS and tank wise is quite on par with many other ships, albeit not all. What makes it so good is the flexibility of it. Its good, but not the best at a lot of different content whereas many other ships tend to be focused. This comes into play very seriously within the Abyss sites due to their spawn variation. This is where flexibility is a high priority. Also, some ships unfortunately are sub par. Especially some turret ships. And I think they need to brought up to be more on par with the meta. It doesn’t have to be the same, homogenous, but just closer then it is currently. Abyss is a particularly good place for this as you can make changes that will apply to abyss only without affecting other areas for the game. So for example if you were to give hybrid turrets some extra umph in the abyss, they would remain as they are outside of it thus not become OP in PvP or other uses. It would just give players more options, more ships to choose from for the particular content which is a very good thing. I most definetly feel that nerfing a good ship just so it sucks as much as some of the sucky ones that need to be buffed is absolutely the wrong way to approach things. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-case-for-strat-cruisers-in-abyss/109833.md?page=2)