# The Completion of the Reclaiming **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299 "2018-09-03T20:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Mitara\_Newelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mitara_newelle/32/384431_2.png) [@Mitara\_Newelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mitara_Newelle)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/202 "2018-09-30T13:50:33Z")
I certainly have some questions for you regarding any Holders you know of that engage in these… activities… you’ve described ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/203 "2018-09-30T13:51:03Z")
I shall question her presently, my lady. ---
**Author:** ![Isha\_Vuld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isha_vuld/32/470113_2.png) [@Isha\_Vuld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Isha_Vuld)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/205 "2018-09-30T14:49:24Z")
> [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](#): > > I, Vykiomi Kezak, relinquish of my own volition all claims to the Kezak Holdership. Not to go off topic, but all of this for getting one’s facts wrong on the extranet and offending the unusually liberally inclined minority within the Empire? Damn, so that’s where the Imperial Navy went. They started policing the extranet instead. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/206 "2018-09-30T14:54:37Z")
So-- one of the paradoxes of the Amarr, Isha, is that while they’re broadly aware that horrific abuses happen all the time, they really are, in their own view, there to _save people_. Acknowledging an awful reality and claiming it’s sadly necessary for some reason is more or less acceptable. Speaking up in favor of that awful reality, however, will bring swift denunciation from basically every direction. Lady Admiral Mitara Newelle is nobody’s idea of “liberally inclined.” (She’s a Sarum vassal Holder and frankly scares me to death.) ---
**Author:** ![Isha\_Vuld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isha_vuld/32/470113_2.png) [@Isha\_Vuld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Isha_Vuld)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/207 "2018-09-30T15:00:32Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Lady Admiral Mitara Newelle is nobody’s idea of “liberally inclined.” I wasn’t referring to her. But yes, one may act like a monster, but heaven forbid you also speak as one. One must pretend it is all for a greater good after all. Hypocritical twits.. Anyway. Didn’t she just renounce her titles because she got her facts wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/208 "2018-09-30T15:34:07Z")
> [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](#): > > I, Vykiomi Kezak, relinquish of my own volition all claims to the Kezak Holdership. I submit myself to the judgement of the courts of the Theology Council. If my case will not be heard I will submit myself to the Speakers of Truth for judgement as a petitioner. Until such time judgement is passed I will arraign myself in the custody of a Holder House of Sarum, and forfeit all my rights to the use of clones to the aforementioned. I, Lord Aldrith Newelle, on behalf of Lady Admiral Mitara Newelle, accept custody of Penitent Vykiomi Kezak, and promise her protection and accommodation until her case is heard by the authorities aforementioned. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/209 "2018-09-30T15:37:29Z")
So does this mean she’s headed for the penitence pits or whatever they’re called, so you guys can use traumatic reconditioning on her? ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/210 "2018-09-30T16:17:49Z")
> [@Isha\_Vuld](#): > > Not to go off topic, but all of this for getting one’s facts wrong on the extranet and offending the unusually liberally inclined minority within the Empire? Support of breeding facilities is the liberal mindset. It is the desire among Holders to have the absolute freedom to do as they will with their property, unbound by any rules or morals that would force them to treat God’s creations with proper care and dignity. Many of the worst abuses of slaves, such as these facilities, or vitoc, TCMCs, or the HEP, happen far more frequently in the liberal territories, because those are the places where people can get away with free market practices that push profit above faith. Or when authoritative institutions choose to, instead of punishing or restricting abusive behavior, to leave decisions or interpretations of its use to the Holders (as in the refusal of the TC to institute a ban on TCMCs). That’s not to say that abuse doesn’t happen in conservative territories, or that certain teachings don’t encourage a dismissive opinion of non-True Amarr, but it is when that mindset is also paired with complete freedom to act on it that the worst offenses happen. Just look at the blood raiders, who take liberty and freedom to do as one will to its most awful heights, and who exceed the empire in their use of breeding facilities. ---
**Author:** ![Isha\_Vuld](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isha_vuld/32/470113_2.png) [@Isha\_Vuld](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Isha_Vuld)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/211 "2018-09-30T16:29:50Z")
> [@Samira\_Kernher](#): > > Support of breeding facilities is the liberal mindset. It is the desire among Holders to have the absolute freedom to do as they will with their property, unbound by any rules or morals that would force them to treat God’s creations with proper care and dignity. You do not understand. I am referring to a liberal mindset in terms of people who actually recognize slaves as people. Liberal as the rest of the galaxy understands the term. I am sure this might be an alien concept to you, so I understand how you can be confused. But I am not referring to the religious conservatives and their counterparts, but to the people who at least pretend they feel the Empire should not be trying to enslave everybody around it. Also, congratulations for missing the point completely. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/212 "2018-09-30T17:03:53Z")
As you say. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/213 "2018-09-30T17:09:52Z")
And you wonder why we fight… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/214 "2018-09-30T17:20:01Z")
> [@Isha\_Vuld](#): > > Liberal as the rest of the galaxy understands the term. Cluster. More importantly, there’s different definitions among all the nations. You think the State’s Liberal bloc and the politically liberal among the Federation are anywhere near the same? Perhaps you shouldn’t be doubling down every time you say something stupid and get shown up. It’s quite important to be accurate when using certain terms, and in context of the Amarr ‘liberal’ becomes a very different thing than what you’re using it as. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/215 "2018-10-03T19:34:29Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Well … it would be … Efficient? > > (For reference, Isha, Queen Synthia’s court and her city-state of Kaztropol is probably the least-horrifying incarnation of Sani Sabik activity on a large scale you’re likely to find. It’s still basically government-by-whim, though.) Actually, I object to this assertion. Synthia only appears whimsical to the untrained eye. Behind every Decision she makes, there _is_ a logic at work. A strange, unique logic, and an overall Plan, that the mortal mind cannot easily comprehend. Aria, for all your intelligence, you know not the elaborate criteria by which Synthia Decides Things, so assuming she is whimsical, is… unwise. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/216 "2018-10-03T20:01:20Z")
Or maybe she just wants you to _think_ there’s a plan, while she goes ahead being whimsical because that’s her whim at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/217 "2018-10-03T23:24:58Z")
> whim > > (h)wim/ > > _noun_ > > 1. a sudden desire or change of mind, especially one that is unusual or unexplained. > 2. ARCHAIC a windlass for raising ore or water from a mine. Note that it’s not necessary for the whim to be irrational or illogical, only that it be sudden and unusual or unexplained, so, actually, Dr. Valate, I think it fits Queen Synthia’s ruling style to perfection. Whether there’s an elaborate logic at work or not, the net effect is … whimsical. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/218 "2018-10-04T07:02:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Or maybe she just wants you to _think_ there’s a plan, while she goes ahead being whimsical because that’s her whim at the moment. Well that’s just crazy talk. ---
**Author:** ![Hevarkin\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hevarkin_kezak-akarin/32/99823_2.png) [@Hevarkin\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hevarkin_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/219 "2018-10-04T18:59:03Z")
Until the Third sign is made unto the First sign and the circle completed, so then must the Destiny of Faith continue. ---
**Author:** ![Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaven_lok_ri/32/293159_2.png) [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaven_Lok_ri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/220 "2018-10-05T21:53:54Z")
> But the odds of the Empire “changing from within” are even smaller then the Republic finally taking action. The Amarr Empire has not changed for thousands of years, what kind of arrogance and ignorance does it take for someone to think they’re going to change it now? This is demonstrably false. Amarr has changed dramatically in my lifetime alone. Our scriptures are also constantly changing, which you would know if you paid any attention to the news. The reclaiming itself, both peaceful and violent, could end with a single divine revelation. It is not likely to do so, but if you believe that the reclaiming is the core of Amarr Faith, you are quite mistaken. It is merely an important revealed part of the divine plan. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/221 "2018-10-05T22:06:20Z")
> [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](#): > > It is merely an important revealed part of the divine plan Exactly why we should be concerned… ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/222 "2018-10-05T22:10:59Z")
Okay, you’re going to have to call it. You can’t have it both ways. Either your Empire is a stable nation founded on the immutable word of the divine, or you’re an unreliable one that might go with whatever you feel your God wants _this_ time. It’s one or the other, you know. More importantly, are you _seriously_ trying to make the claim that one of the oldest cores of the Rite, this _mandate from God_, is _not_ a core part of the Rite? Are you genuinely going to say that the Reclaiming is just “meh, whatever”? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299.md?page=12)