# The Completion of the Reclaiming **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299 "2018-09-03T20:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vykiomi_kezak-akarin/32/101259_2.png) [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/41 "2018-09-26T11:42:57Z")
> [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > Tl;dr: many thousands of years ago people told the Amarr to piss off, so our ancestors wrote a book justifying the enslavement of all the descendants of those people because we are petty. I would consider a more apt synopsis in relation to what I wrote to be: The children of Amarr do not forget; and it is only God who forgives. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/42 "2018-09-26T15:18:18Z")
It is only god who forgives, as a servant to your god shouldn’t you be following it’s lead? If he forgives shouldn’t you? Nevermind we need not be forgiven for defending ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vykiomi_kezak-akarin/32/101259_2.png) [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/43 "2018-09-26T15:28:20Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > It is only god who forgives, as a servant to your god shouldn’t you be following it’s lead? If he forgives shouldn’t you? Because it is only those in Covenant with the Lord God who can beg forgiveness for our sins against the Almighty. Hence the Destiny of Faith in the Reclaiming, to bring the heathen into Covenant with God so that they may beg for His forgiveness for their original sin of rebellion against Him. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/44 "2018-09-26T15:53:31Z")
But it’s not a matter of begging forgiveness, it’s a matter of your god not actively taking the lead. Your ancestors chose your own actions long ago, using scriptures your ancestors wrote. Or did this god hand deliver it to your ancestors? What is only apparent here is that your ancestors took liberties with what your god _may_ have said (it’s the Amarr **faith** after all, faith not fact) and their descendants use that as justification as if it came from your God’s mouth. Consider this me questioning your logic, not attacking it. If I was attacking it I would have more choice words to use. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vykiomi_kezak-akarin/32/101259_2.png) [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/45 "2018-09-26T16:06:38Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > But it’s not a matter of begging forgiveness However, it is. True forgiveness and the final abjuration of sin is the prerogative of God towards those in Covenant with Him. As such, when I said, “Only God Forgives,” It is a tacit acceptance of the prerogatives of God in granting absolution of sins – to assert otherwise on my part would be blasphemy. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/46 "2018-09-26T16:40:09Z")
I’m not addressing the matter of forgiveness, only the justification of your people’s enforcement of my people seeking it. Personally I see no reason to even concern myself with your god, to have faith is to believe, to believe does not necessarily mean it’s fact. There certainly are facts to the contrary of your beliefs. Do you actually have a justification of why your ancestors’ words should force their will on my people? Your ancestors’ literature is not an answer worth much to the rest of the cluster. And I’m interested in more than the standard “our god will it.” It wills it from hersay. If it didn’t write the scriptures it is not it’s word, only your ancestors’ interpretation of what it may or may not have said. ---
**Author:** ![Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vykiomi_kezak-akarin/32/101259_2.png) [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/47 "2018-09-26T16:56:23Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Do you actually have a justification of why your ancestors’ words should force their will on my people? Your ancestors’ literature is not an answer worth much to the rest of the cluster. And I’m interested in more than the standard “our god will it.” It wills it from hersay. If it didn’t write the scriptures it is not it’s word, only your ancestors’ interpretation of what it may or may not have said. The First Principles of the Amarr Faith are: 1. God exists 2. Gheinok was His First Prophet If one does not accept these First Principles then they are an Unbeliever in rebellion against God and must be Reclaimed by the Faithful for the sin of their rebellion cannot be permitted to exist as I have already outlined previously. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/48 "2018-09-26T17:08:01Z")
It never pays to attempt rational discourse with a slaver zealot. Their ultimate answer will always be, “God said so”. The FACT is that a thousand years ago the Amarr attacked my ancestors _unprovoked_ and murdered, kidnapped, raped, tortured and experimented upon them by the billions. They subjugated us for hundreds of years during which time they nearly exterminated our culture and history. They nearly wiped out the entire Starkmanir Tribe by orbital bombardment of their home world. And all this was justified by their so-called holy mandate. Sorry slaver, you can use all the florid prose you want but at the end of the day you’ve committed crimes so heinous that no civilized society could ever condone. You say that you don’t forget. Well, neither do we. We’ll fight you to our last breath rather then ever be enslaved by you again. ---
**Author:** ![Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vykiomi_kezak-akarin/32/101259_2.png) [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/49 "2018-09-26T17:24:53Z")
> [@Anabella\_Rella](#): > > no civilized society could ever condone The only truly civilized society is the Holy Empire of Amarr for it remains the sole society in Covenant with God and since the Reconquista of the Minmatar was launched by His Light and His Will, then everything that was done to the Minmatar was condoned and sanctioned both by the Word of the His Imperial Majesty Damius III as Divine Logos of God and by the doctrines of the Faith against the Unbeliever. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/50 "2018-09-26T17:30:30Z")
Well said @Anabella_Rella well said. Though I still would prefer to at least try and understand the thought process behind it, even that last reply could be summed up as “the book my ancestors wrote says…” Without the scriptures, how do you know this to even be true? One could say the same about our oral history but the difference is those people telling could only exist due to those who they speak of, much as we can only exist due to the ones we tell stories of existed. Much of the scriptures very well could be true (science parts, ect) but it’s basis is unverified. Sound belief can really only be based on a basis of at least limited fact to any rational person. Where is that exactly in this? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/51 "2018-09-26T17:35:04Z")
People, please. It’s just one more nutbag zealot, same as all the other nutbag zealots. There’s nothing to say that Autocannons wouldn’t say far more eloquently. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/52 "2018-09-26T17:36:24Z")
That’s stopped them from multiplying in the past? Forgive me for trying a new angle. Not saying it’s wrong, I’m just reserving it for a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/53 "2018-09-26T17:37:34Z")
Good point Miz. Hopefully this one will stop talking long enough to actually undock and put her lasers where her big mouth is. I’ll be looking for this one in the war zone next time I’m there. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/54 "2018-09-26T17:42:14Z")
The ‘last resort’ became the only remaining resort the moment they declared their axioms. You can’t argue against those fallacies. It’s something they have to grow out of themselves, _then_ you can start talking. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/55 "2018-09-26T17:43:32Z")
Admittedly I’m coming to that conclusion to be honest. Can’t say I didn’t at least try right? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/56 "2018-09-26T18:12:45Z")
… and Aria wonders why I’ve gone to a default position of ‘buy more bullets’. But sure, @Deitra_Vess let’s try something else for a change. Hey, @Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin: > [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](#): > > The Book of Gheinok makes clear the persecution and suffering inflicted upon the Faithful who exist in Holy Covenant with God at the hands of the heathen who were in rebellion against God. When did this happen? Roughly. ---
**Author:** ![Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaven_lok_ri/32/293159_2.png) [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaven_Lok_ri)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/57 "2018-09-26T18:25:53Z")
It is good to see that someone paid attention to their education. That seems far too rare among capsule capable individuals. @Vykiomi_Kezak-Akarin ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/58 "2018-09-26T18:26:13Z")
I don’t so much wonder as think it’s pretty sad. If I look at you the way you look at the Amarr, I should be assuming you’re all just like Mizhara. … And I should be killing as many Republic Matari as I can, and encourage others to do the same, to help make sure you never have the numbers to challenge the Empire for real. At one time not so long ago-- at the height of our arguments-- I was about ready to start on that kind of policy. It was Deitra who talked me out of it. If she’s having second thoughts, that would be even sadder. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/59 "2018-09-26T18:29:14Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Vykiomi\_Kezak-Akarin](#): > > > > The Book of Gheinok makes clear the persecution and suffering inflicted upon the Faithful who exist in Holy Covenant with God at the hands of the heathen who were in rebellion against God. > > When did this happen? Roughly. Between 15 and 20 thousand years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299/60 "2018-09-26T18:30:45Z")
I don’t know to be honest, it’s not really second thoughts it’s more less, “is the effort going to actually be worth it?” I don’t really think I need to say it but firing bullets is easier than projecting ideas. I would hope some form of at least neutrality can be achieved but looking at those who are up and coming from both sides to be honest, it’s a little disheartening. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-completion-of-the-reclaiming/103299.md?page=4)