# The Corruption of the Sani Faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147 "2020-09-10T19:27:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/1 "2020-09-10T19:27:27Z")
It’s been over a hundred and fifty years since the first Sanist refugees came to the Federation from the Amarr Empire. It was the first time they could live in a civilized society without being persecuted for their faith. For thousands of years in Amarr, Sanists of all kinds, were subject to the harshest penalties, regardless of their specific rituals or practices. Any hint of Sanism, and they would be enslaved or executed, along with their families. If something is outlawed, regardless of the qualities of the thing in question, it changes the thing. When CONCORD moved to legalize drugs, it changed the nature of the entire business. Before, criminals ran the drug business. As a result, people were murdered, kidnapped, enslaved, and other despicable things, because of the illegal nature of the drugs. Now, with drugs legalized, none of that happens. Someone goes into a store and gets their preferred mind-altering substance and goes on their way, similar to how people buy groceries. By outlawing Sanism, the Amarr changed the nature of the faith. It drew certain elements to it, pushing away others. In short, the Amarr created the Blood Raiders and other despicable elements that claim to be Sani. Those already disposed to brutality, murder, other sociopathic tendencies adopted the mantle of Sani, because, after all, it was the religion of outlaws. Only extremists became Sanists, and the religion became extreme in nature. The Blood Raiders encouraged violence in its members as a result of the Amarrian attacks on them. Violence begets violence. The current level of brutality and atrocity present in the Blood Raiders is directly traceable to the Amarr outlawing of the Sanist faith. In contrast, there’s a reason why the Sani faith in the Federation is flourishing. Because of our freedoms, anyone can practice the faith. And, let’s be honest with ourselves, most people are not into brutally murdering others. Sanism is mainstream, restored to what I believe to be the true purpose of the faith: individual empowerment, self improvement, and spiritual connections with others. Sanist in the Federation go to work, pay their taxes, and are a contributing pat of society. They are nothing, _nothing_ like the extremists that the Blood Raiders are. We are the truest expression of the Sani faith. ---
**Author:** ![Silas\_Vitalia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/silas_vitalia/32/226220_2.png) [@Silas\_Vitalia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Silas_Vitalia)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/2 "2020-09-10T20:59:13Z")
If we had an isk for every one of us claiming to be the truest expression of the faith, we’d… well Catiz would be borrowing money from _us_. ---
**Author:** ![Maira\_Blackfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maira_blackfire/32/394201_2.png) [@Maira\_Blackfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maira_Blackfire)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/3 "2020-09-10T21:24:35Z")
Interesting words Litha, I will admit I can only say it’s true that I haven’t seen anything that would pinpoint the Sani faith to be as grotesque as I was to believe before moving to the Federation. On the contrary it has given me an insight in how bad the fanatical Blood raiders really are. ---
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/4 "2020-09-10T21:28:35Z")
You’re probably right. And maybe I phrased it poorly. However, I am just so fed up with people hearing Sani and thinking Blood Raiders. Sani is not Blood Raiders. In my mind the truest expression of something occurs when it has the freedom to express on its own. A seed planted in toxic soil will never grow to be the pretty flower it could be, if it grows at all. Edit: Oh gods, I should have started with that flower analogy from the start. I mean, really, Sani Sabik (Blood Seed) and seeds? This is why I have a speech writer. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Cetes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vlad_cetes/32/391891_2.png) [@Vlad\_Cetes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vlad_Cetes)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/5 "2020-09-10T22:21:41Z")
How can you reconcile your sect of Sanism with one of Sani Sabik’s core tenants? There are those who are great. And all others exist to serve those who are great. Yes, Sani Sabik teaches empowerment and for oneself. But that purpose is to dominate, to rule. That is why the Amarr fear it, it teaches one that one’s birth is not the controller of ones destiny. Ones true destiny is what ones abilities provide. Wealth, power, followers… ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/6 "2020-09-10T23:57:34Z")
> [@Vlad\_Cetes](#): > > Wealth, power, followers… … endless plots and treachery, civil war, societal collapse … The Amarr respond to it as they do partly because they understand what it leads to. It’s a disease that kills nations. The Federation isn’t wise to permit its practice. ---
**Author:** ![Random\_Rick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/random_rick/32/258426_2.png) [@Random\_Rick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Random_Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/7 "2020-09-11T01:27:11Z")
there is only one true god of the Amarr people. and it would remain that way. ---
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/8 "2020-09-11T01:30:22Z")
> [@Vlad\_Cetes](#): > > There are those who are great. And all others exist to serve those who are great. I reject this as a core tenent of the faith. This is a part of the faith that was corrupted _by the Amarr_. > There is nothing great about being superior to your fellow man. True greatness lies in being superior to your former self. - Hem de Trajet, Gallente Sanist Theologist The Amarr are all about that domination, slavery, and service. The reason why the Amarr outlawed (and I will admit, the history here is not reliable) is because Sanist believe anyone can achieve greatness. Slavery is anathema to that belief. It was later, when the Sani faith was outlawed that the extremists entered it that this idea of domination entered the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Silas\_Vitalia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/silas_vitalia/32/226220_2.png) [@Silas\_Vitalia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Silas_Vitalia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 1:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/9 "2020-09-11T01:44:17Z")
So much to jump into here but briefly: 1. You talk about all of these _kumbaya_, kinder gentler faith practices like you _haven’t_ been out in Querious and Delve and Vale of the Silent regularly exploding thousands of baseliners and other capsuleers for the last several years. 😘 Don’t get me wrong I’m _all about it_. It just seems you are, too… notwithstanding this post’s claims otherwise. 2. You have an interesting view of our history, but it’s just that. A non-True Amarr, not born to holdership would have a particular version of things quite different from others. 3. You have much more in common with Sarikusa’s core tenants than you might be comfortable with. 4. But also, most importantly, you do you, right? Go on with your bad self, as the youth say. Whatever floats your boat. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Cetes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vlad_cetes/32/391891_2.png) [@Vlad\_Cetes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vlad_Cetes)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 2:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/10 "2020-09-11T02:06:25Z")
> [@Lithara](#): > > I reject this as a core tenant of the faith. This is a part of the faith that was corrupted _by the Amarr_ . The Apocryphone is a corruption of the Amarr? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 2:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/11 "2020-09-11T02:13:58Z")
> [@Vlad\_Cetes](#): > > I think not. Then you exist not! ---
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/12 "2020-09-11T02:29:54Z")
Would you believe, Lady Vitalia, that I have never once fired a shot in anger? It’s true. While I have certainly flown a support ship in suppression of the Blood Raiders (and collected quite the sum from CONCORD in the process), I have never fired a single shot myself. Even in combat against the invading forces, I always fly support. There is not a single gun or missile launcher on my ship. I am not talking about drones, either. Another person, a living human being, pulls the trigger. You might find this a distinction without a difference, but it matters to me. As far as my view of Sanist history, I would submit that an accurate history is impossible. Even if the Amarr did not alter their history every time something went slightly awry, anything more than a few ~~decades~~ minutes leaves events open to myriad interpretations. After a few thousand years, I would not even attempt to find anything other than subjective beliefs. The Sani faith in the Federation started, like I said, around a century and a half ago, with religious refugees coming to the Federation. From that point, there really are divergent paths between the Sani faith in the Federation and the Amarrian/Blood Raider Sanism. Most of us here never had the Amarr faith as a stepping stone to the Blood Seed. Even in the Federation, the various Sani sects diverge greatly, each searching for that kernel of truth. Monotheism, Polytheism, Animism, spirituality all exist in Federal Sanism. I know one sect that substitutes water for blood. No one here has a monopoly on truth or faith. So, yes, I would say that a Gallente Princess is going to look at things very different than an Amarr holder. As far as the Raiders go, I never really got past the whole human sacrifice thing to their core tenants. However, the thought that I could become a monster terrifies me. My wife can attest to this. ---
**Author:** ![Silas\_Vitalia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/silas_vitalia/32/226220_2.png) [@Silas\_Vitalia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Silas_Vitalia)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/13 "2020-09-11T03:14:36Z")
Oh well I tried. You sound like Midna Lyre with this prattle. You can surely call yourself whatever you like, but when people want classic Quaffe, they want the real thing, and not the knock-off. There’s a reason these sorts of off-brand Gallente pretenders don’t get invited to the meetings. Anyway have fun with your forest moon hug festival or whatever you’ve got planned, I’m sure it’ll be a hoot. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/14 "2020-09-11T03:34:51Z")
There’s also a reason we’re not worried about eradicating the mostly harmless Fed version of the personal empowerment philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhi_fen-chun/32/249257_2.png) [@Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhi_Fen-Chun)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/15 "2020-09-11T04:47:11Z")
Excuse me, but I believe you mean tenet. A tenant is someone renting from a landlord. Besides that correction, I feel as though the Federation variety of Sanism is a distinctly muted version, as it is permitted to exist under condition that it does not get up anywhere near to the point the Blood Raiders have taken it, and therefore developed around that restriction. I also don’t think the Gallente Sanists have much say over what the actual core tenets of Sanism are, for the above reason and because it didn’t originate in the Federation. Certainly you folk have established your own sets of central values, and this distinguishes Gallente Sanism from the variety that has long plagued the Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/16 "2020-09-11T05:21:04Z")
Right then. I see I will have to make a seriouspost later. But first, I’m going to have a little drink. Ta-ta for now ! ---
**Author:** ![Azazel\_Drakonis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azazel_drakonis/32/495743_2.png) [@Azazel\_Drakonis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azazel_Drakonis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/17 "2020-09-11T10:42:52Z")
> [@Lithara](#): > > Now, with drugs legalized, none of that happens. Someone goes into a store and gets their preferred mind-altering substance and goes on their way, similar to how people buy groceries. This isn’t true…the world of competition will always be a brutal one. > [@Lithara](#): > > I reject this as a core tenant of the faith. This is a part of the faith that was corrupted _by the Amarr_ . I think by rejecting this, it makes it _not_ Sani Sabik at all. And Vlad is right, this was not corrupted by the Amarr. The Amarr reject the entire thing… > [@Lithara](#): > > Even in the Federation, the various Sani sects diverge greatly, each searching for that kernel of truth. But you will continue to boldly claim they’re all harmless… presumptuous ---
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/18 "2020-09-11T11:38:30Z")
All of them are harmless? Well, there is an exception that proves every rule, I suppose. Are there sects/cults that are extremist in nature? Maybe, probably. But if a group seek to actively harm others, then that’s what the police are for. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/19 "2020-09-11T15:57:33Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > I see I will have to make a seriouspost later. It’s probably better for everyone if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147/20 "2020-09-11T19:25:19Z")
> [@Lithara](#): > > It was the first time they could live in a civilized society without being persecuted for their faith. There once was this jolly bunch called the Takmahl who departed the Empire to build their own civilized society without being persecuted for their faith. The ‘utopia’ they’ve built doesn’t lend much credence to the “unfairly persecuted minority” theory. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-corruption-of-the-sani-faith/266147.md?page=2)