# The Cost of Pi (Planetary Interaction) **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining & Extraction\ **Tags:** planet-interaction\ **Created:** [July 11, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042 "2019-07-11T01:11:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/1 "2019-07-11T01:11:00Z")
So I wanted to figure out why the Pi market is what it is and I think this table (possibly in error, I haven’t fully checked it) summarizes why. Assuming most Omegas have only 5 planets per toon because level V takes like 16 days to train… 6P3 requires one Omega with 3 toons each at level IV. 1P4 requires a minimum of 2 or a maximum of 3 Omegas with all toons at level IV. So the cost to produce P3 or P4 is luxuriously high. Imagine working 29 planets just to earn 1.9million isk an hour. (1.9m isk/hr) Now most people don’t realize these costs because they don’t try to go for a fully buffered, production line that knows no downtime. They either sit on producing a p1 for a few days, or make p2 from that for a few days, etc. But, unless my basic inputs/outputs are wrong, this chart shows the costs pretty plainly. Which is good, it means Pi is designed to be a mix of harvest, factory, and trade among Pi producers. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/7/e/7ef2c5a4d4e27bfdef24bfd99055142db4318977.png) I want to note at the end of this: the _planets needed_ is determined by what is needed to run a single cycle of P3 in an hour, so don’t try to line everything up from the sheet, some of the work was done in my head but not shown. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Little](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/do_little/32/411571_2.png) [@Do\_Little](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Do_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/2 "2019-07-11T08:25:52Z")
A few years ago I was making MTUs in Nullsec and created this chart: 1 high-tech plant making 24 wetware mainframes a day requires: - 2 advanced processors making supercomputers each requiring: - 2 advanced processors making coolant - 2 advanced processors making water-cooled CPU - 2 advanced processors making consumer electronics. - 2 advanced processors making biotech research reports each requiring: - 2 advanced processors making nanites - 2 advanced processors making livestock - 2 advanced processors making construction blocks - 2 advanced processors making cyroprotectant solution each requiring: - 2 advanced processors making test cultures - 2 advanced processors making synthetic oil - 2 advanced processors making fertilizer It was quite profitable - MTUs were selling for 10 million at the time, but it wasn’t “passive” income - it took a lot of time to manage the colonies and it wouldn’t be practical in Highsec - you need rich deposits to keep the processors fed and low export/import taxes. In Highsec, P2 is profitable and low maintenance. I make Robotics and Guidance Systems for personal use - I doubt that it would make economic sense if I was selling them, more profitable to simply sell the P2. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/3 "2019-07-11T08:33:36Z")
The P1 is absent your chart. It looks like it takes 9x4 or 36 P1 factories to make all the inputs for 24 wetware mainframes a day (because HTIF is one cycle per hour, so 24 cycles in a day). I estimated 8 P1 procs per planet (continually fueled, this is variant based on how much extraction from one ECU you can get…you can have more procs if you get large buffers from one ECU). By your estimate that’s 36/8 or about 4.5 planets for P1 extraction to make 24 units (24 cycles) of P4 that requires 3xP3 inputs. I’ll go back when I have time and have slept well, to see how this stacks up against what I got in my spreadsheet and check my work. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/4 "2019-07-11T15:15:53Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Assuming most Omegas have only 5 planets per toon because level V takes like 16 days to train… source ? Just so you know, I have 4 toons with max PI skills and not a single planet. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Now most people don’t realize these costs because they don’t try to go for a fully buffered, production line that knows no downtime. They either sit on producing a p1 for a few days, or make p2 from that for a few days, etc. source ? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/5 "2019-07-11T17:18:59Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Just so you know, I have 4 toons with max PI skills and not a single planet. I honestly would have expected you to be maxed on 2 omegas…36 worlds. People intense on Pi seem to go for that. Then there’s that guy on the forums we ran into that said he had 90planets IIRC? You know my assumptions are correct. Most people aren’t going to spend 48 days training for 18 planets per omega. Most people arent going to have 2 or more omegas. So estimating 15 planets per average pi player is already high-balling it. I consider you, like me and a few others who generally post about Pi to be top tier Pi players. All of us trying to max out on Pi stuff with littlest efforts possible. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/6 "2019-07-11T18:21:28Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > You know my assumptions are correct. No. And you know it’s not. I’m just telling you that going for PI maxed is very cheap SP-wise. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Most people aren’t going to spend 48 days training for 18 planets per omega. Again, source ? > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > I consider you, like me and a few others who generally post about Pi to be top tier Pi players. You misread my post. I don’t have any toon doing PI anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/7 "2019-07-11T18:43:11Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I’m just telling you that going for PI maxed is very cheap SP-wise. Meh. 15/18 is a very small hair to split. That difference of 3 planets takes 3 or 4 omegas before you have another complete production line of p3 added to your possibilities. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/8 "2019-07-11T18:44:55Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I don’t have any toon doing PI anymore Good. More for me. You’re one of those I’d actually see as competition. You seem to get good enough at what you do that wed compete in the markets. ---
**Author:** ![Arc\_Hammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arc_hammer/32/138203_2.png) [@Arc\_Hammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arc_Hammer)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/9 "2019-07-11T19:10:24Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > People intense on Pi seem to go for that. Then there’s that guy on the forums we ran into that said he had 90planets IIRC? Hey! I know that guy!! ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/10 "2019-07-11T19:22:44Z")
> [@Arc\_Hammer](#): > > Hey! I know that guy!! I do wish to know how many people ever achieve this level. ---
**Author:** ![Duo\_Roman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duo_roman/32/379186_2.png) [@Duo\_Roman](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duo_Roman)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/11 "2019-07-11T19:57:21Z")
I have 1 account with all 3 doing 6 planets each, producing 2 different p3s, making 3 to 4b isk per month. It takes me about 30min per day but it totally worth it to have max planets, it allows you to diversify p0s to make the most out of the planets. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/12 "2019-07-11T20:08:43Z")
> [@Duo\_Roman](#): > > I have 1 account with all 3 doing 6 planets Oh you’re not the 90 planet guy? But as mentioned to Andersen. I dont disagree there may be a larger pool of 18 planeteers. But I think the number of 15 planeteers willstill be much higher and the casual Planeteer selling a random p2 or p1 for some extra lazy income is higher frequency still. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/13 "2019-07-11T20:13:09Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > But I think the number of 15 planeteers willstill be much higher and the casual Planeteer selling a random p2 or p1 for some extra lazy income is higher frequency still. again, source ? I have no idea what is the average planets per character (for a character doing PI). So I can’t make such a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/14 "2019-07-11T20:16:15Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So I can’t make such a claim. I care less about precision than you do. I care more about accuracy. It is accurate to say the relative relationships are what I’ve stated because the difficulty curve demands it. Whether or not I’m precise about how much is irrelevant to me. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/15 "2019-07-11T20:29:07Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > I care less about precision than you do. I care more about accuracy. It is accurate to say the relative relationships are what I’ve stated because the difficulty curve demands it. It is not accurate unless you have a source for that. Until then, it’s just random baseless affirmation. If you want to make an accurate evaluation you need to get rid of those. otherwise you just affirm random things, and your evaluation is as correct as the least correct of those thins you affirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/16 "2019-07-11T20:32:05Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Until then, it’s just random baseless affirmation Only if you assume the contrapositive position to be that noob omegas who cant make pi profitable or are not that interested in it also spin up multiple 18-planet omegas… Otherwise logic dictates rules apply, such as most people will never spin up a single omega to 18 planets. Let alone multiple. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/17 "2019-07-11T20:36:59Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Only if you assume the contrapositive position to be that noob omegas who cant make pi profitable or are not that interested in it also spin up multiple 18-planet omegas… Nope. You can doubt an affirmation without affirming the opposite. Also your position is not the contrapositive. contrapositive of “most people who do PI have less than 5 planets” is “most people with 5 planets do not do PI”. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Otherwise logic dictates rules apply, such as most people will never spin up a single omega to 18 planets. Without a source, that’s not logic. That’s just a baseless affirmation. And it makes whatever you are trying to do, a waste of time because based on empty air. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/18 "2019-07-11T20:44:58Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Also your position is not the contrapositive. contrapositive of “most people who do PI have less than 5 planets” is “most people with 5 planets do not do PI”. Dont be an arse. You know what I’m trying to say lol. Offer the right verbiage then. Either you say that far fewer run 15+ planets. Or more people do. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/19 "2019-07-11T21:31:29Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Dont be an arse. You know what I’m trying to say lol. Offer the right verbiage then. What ? No, what you wrote makes no sense at all. I don’t get what you are trying to express, be it the opposite of the contraposition none of those make sense. I asked for your SOURCE about that “most people have 4 planet” affirmation. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042/20 "2019-07-11T21:34:58Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I asked for your SOURCE about that “most people have 4 planet” affirmation That’s not what I intended to say either. I was saying most people will not train their skill past lvl 4 [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-pi-planetary-interaction/174042.md?page=2)