# The cost of suicide ganking is too low **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033 "2017-11-17T16:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/242 "2017-11-20T21:03:22Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > It is irrelevant to the discussion. Its central to the discussion, pending a massive change to Alphas this Dec/Jan. > [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > I never said they were not different at all, but that whether it is Alphas or Omegas ganking it makes not difference in terms of ganking First of all, thats a double negative. Second, according to your own notion of emergent content and how unpredictable players are in how they capitalise on change, you have no leg to stand on. You dont know if it will make a difference to ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/243 "2017-11-20T21:05:42Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > First of all, thats a double negative. > > Second, according to your own notion of emergent content and how unpredictable players are in how they capitalise on change, you have no leg to stand on. > > You dont know if it will make a difference to ganking. 🙄 No, no, and not my argument. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/244 "2017-11-20T21:08:36Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > No, no, and not my argument. So now you went from “whatever” to repeating “no”. What you tried to strawman, wasnt my argument to begin with, so that does away with that part too. You are wrecked, m8. You lost your hand. Step away from the table. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/245 "2017-11-20T21:10:25Z")
You made three claims, that was my response. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You are wrecked, m8. > > You lost your hand. Step away from the table. If denial like this makes you feel better, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/246 "2017-11-20T21:12:33Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > If denial like this makes you feel better, go for it. Oh, the irony. When your own denial was reduced to repeating “no”. You’ve lost man, hard. SA would acknowledge that at this point. Learn to lose with grace, instead of whining about it. Take your licks, and come back next time stronger for it. Dont make me kick you when you are down. Fold, and I will offer my hand to lift you up. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/247 "2017-11-20T21:15:02Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Oh, the irony. > > When your own denial was reduced to repeating “no”. > > You’ve lost man, hard. > SA would acknowledge that at this point. > > Learn to lose with grace, instead of whining about it. > Take your licks, and come back next time stronger for it. Alright! 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/248 "2017-11-20T21:18:37Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Alright! 🤣 You dont know when you are beat, do you. A one word response in pointless sarcastic denial, and a smiley, is very weak as a rebuttal. This is beneath you, man, and the niveau of this discussion. You cant always win, and this time, you didnt. Accept that, fold and come back again next time with something stronger. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/249 "2017-11-20T21:22:10Z")
you know… this is probably the best post i’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/250 "2017-11-20T21:37:19Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Read above. > > Alphas earn CCP nothing. > > 200 Omegas earn CCP 200 subs, or 100,000 PLEX sunk, or a mix. > > 200 Alphas earn CCP exactly zero, minus costs of service. > > Wtf are you even on about. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You have deliberately ignored how I pointed out that the difference between 200 Omegas and 200 Alphas is outright, objectively, a vast difference. I disagree. Alphas exist as opportunity to sell additional SKINs, or other items. Every SKIN has to be built only once and can be sold for an unlimited times from then on. Additionally, simple modifications like colour changes don’t need much work, yet allow for even more possible sales. I write sales, but in reality they’re opportunities. The more opportunities CCP offers, the more likely they will sell something. Keeping the amount of work=money per sale low guarantees high income. Alphas absolutely do earn CCP money. This is how “free” games keep themselves afloat. (modified 1%-Rule-of-the-Internet applies) ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/251 "2017-11-20T21:39:37Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Alphas exist as opportunity to sell additional SKINs, or other items. What Alpha is going to buy a SKIN, instead of subbing, or a PLEX ingame. And even if they do buy a SKIN for whatever ship they can fly, they will be buying it off the market for isk, not from CCP directly. Alphas, by definition, earn CCP nothing. It costs nothing to be an Alpha. ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/252 "2017-11-20T21:40:50Z")
I enjoyed writing it, I am not going to lie to you. And I have always enjoyed @Dinsdale_Pirannha’s posts, so why not acknowledge it I think I have lost isk with all the enjoyment I have been having on the forums recently, neglecting the game and not dealing with lifeblood breaking elinor and evernus for me. Now I am clear that Dinsdale Pirannha, known across eve forums official and unofficial as the guy with the inside scoop on the null cartels, and their secret machinations, has publically outed me as a dev alt or indeed a ‘cartel member’ rather than just a member, I feel confident I have won the forums, and can go back to playing the game- for who does not take @Dinsdale_Pirannha’s words as true incite into the inner workings of CCP and their back room deals with the likes of the evil Mittani and his ilk? EDIT: > [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > Alphas absolutely do earn CCP money. This is how “free” games keep themselves afloat. (modified 1%-Rule-of-the-Internet applies) I think we can see all around us today, that if you are not the customer, you are the product, nothing is free in this capitalistic dystopia either, just like the game itself. ---
**Author:** ![Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/patti_potato_patrouette/32/18901_2.png) [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Patti_Potato_Patrouette)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/253 "2017-11-20T21:42:05Z")
Welcome to the internet ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/254 "2017-11-20T21:42:06Z")
A whole industry disagrees with you. What do you base your statement on? Why would you even think this? ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/255 "2017-11-20T21:50:04Z")
> [@Patti\_Potato\_Patrouette](#): > > nothing is free in this capitalistic dystopia It’s funny how this applies to real life. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/256 "2017-11-20T23:13:14Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You dont know when you are beat, do you. I do, but funnily enough I don’t think this is one of those times. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What Alpha is going to buy a SKIN, instead of subbing, or a PLEX ingame. Who cares? If an Alpha wants to remain an Alpha but have a skin on a ship…what do you care? > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > And even if they do buy a SKIN for whatever ship they can fly, they will be buying it off the market for isk, not from CCP directly. Oh brother… ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/257 "2017-11-20T23:31:59Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > In belts that is true, since Mining Barges have a very high Scan Resolution (sorry I wrote Sig Res before - was late). T1 haulers only have a tiny bit more than Carriers, so it takes ages to lock anything smaller than a BS, unless the opponent keeps their MWD running, in which case it still takes considerably longer to lock them, than for them to lock the hauler. > > Without getting a lock within a reasonable timeframe, all offensive fitting options are meaningless. For instance T1 haulers could fit defensive scram and web, which would provide for a reasonable gtfo option, if they learn to use it and it still wouldn’t make it safe for them should they find a well prepared ganker. The lock times are sufficient,you can fit a scripted sebo to a nereus, and the intention of the weapons (forcing scout tackle off), works just fine. You also keep describing failure on the part of the hauler pilot to keep an eye on their surroundings (and start things like defensive locks as early as possible) as something that needs to be designed out, which it doesn’t, and you keep describing the hauler as needing the kinds of dps it shouldn’t, because it should either be being assisted by gate guns, by station guns, or by barges. > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Yeah, I’ve done it before. It really only works with a Nereus though. Try getting any DPS out of a Mammoth or the likes. It’s not sufficient to fight back in any way. That being said I think the low Scan Res is surely the larger issue. So fly a nereus when the likelyhood of being engaged is highest. Just like I put my covetor away and fly a proc, when I think it I might want to tackle something under the refineries guns. > [@](#): > > > [@Coralas](#): > > > > They are specialist hauling ships. > > They are. It doesn’t provide any reason for them being absolutetly incapable of any offensive action whatsoever. Unless you’d want PVP capable ships to not be able to put anything in cargo apart from ammo. PVP ships have to carry loot. ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Luttrell\_Khan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/marcus_luttrell_khan/32/148357_2.png) [@Marcus\_Luttrell\_Khan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Marcus_Luttrell_Khan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/258 "2017-11-20T23:47:14Z")
I’m a bit late, it seems. “The cost of suicide ganking is too low” You talk about risk versus reward. You assume there is little to no risk. Well, do you know there is literally a band of pilots in EVE who dedicate their time SOLELY to stopping ganking? Funny how that works. Let me also provide examples of ‘risk:’ Without ganking, what is the risk to freighters, miners, PVErs, etc in highsec? Wardecs and baiters. Guess what? You can very easily avoid both of those. Simple: Don’t be stupid. What is the risk to people in Null nowadays, considering there are literally people who sit around waiting for someone to attack their blue PVE/miners/etc and drop capitals on them? As of now, Nullsec is literally the safest place in EVE for someone that isn’t a complete fool. So, now that you have been given a dose of Reality XL from my Capital Autocannons, let me tell you how I feel. Gankers ARE risk. They make EVE a true sandbox PVP experience. If you don’t want to PVP, EVE isn’t for you. Are you upset that you don’t have the same mastery of highsec mechanics that they do, which allows them to be frugal with their risk? EVE has been called a spreadsheet simulator for a reason. Gankers are professionals; they know EXACTLY what they need in order to accomplish their goal. Do gankers kill for fun? Absolutely. Do gankers kill for profit? Not always, but yes. Sometimes, tears are the only profit. TL:DR OP is quite literally ignorant of how things are. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/259 "2017-11-20T23:48:36Z")
A lot of players will never pay a subscription to a game. So they will never even be customers for CCP if there is no f2p option. There are countless f2p examples where people sink hundreds of $ into a game for stuff once they are invested. We will see if this works out for EVE. It did for a lot of other games. ---
**Author:** ![morion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morion/32/23133_2.png) [@morion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/morion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/260 "2017-11-20T23:53:54Z")
Please tear up the following suggestion to the ops “ganking is too low” statement. 1. Omega subscribed accounts may PVP other players “Anywhere” 2. Alpha free accounts may only PVP 0.4 security systems and below in npc corp. 3. Alpha free accounts may PVP anywhere only in player made corp “non npc” 4. security status below -5 looses ability to dock in npc station 0.5 above regardless corp affiliation. 5. Alpha in a player run corp may dock a citadel structure in high sec space with -10 standing. 6. ease up on security standings hit for PVP in low security 0.1-\>0.4 space This on the surface seems to address points of nothing to retaliation against. the 20m skill points should be plenty strong to Ship PVP in low and null. Bring a lot of legitimacy to CODE once they hang there citadels up. To base the -10 current generation of gankers out of. or they need to fix security to neutral to dock say jita4-4. kk enjoyed reading the thread. TLDR: pure high sec ganking could require alpha in a corp and a citadel to dock. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/261 "2017-11-21T00:16:39Z")
Morion! o7 How have you been? I’m wondering about you every now and then! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=14)