# The cost of suicide ganking is too low **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033 "2017-11-17T16:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/362 "2017-11-22T18:05:47Z")
CONCORD, as an NPC entity, expends no ingame resouces and in no way contributes to the player market, or player interaction within the game except by restricting player behavior. Player interaction should always be primary, and AG represents that as a response to HS ganking. This emergent content, player based, should be encouraged, not further infringed. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/363 "2017-11-22T18:44:09Z")
-Sec status loss -ship loss -no insurance -no guarantee of success -possible loss of shiny pod -high sec status recovery price (tags) > the cost is too low It’s pretty expensive unless you get a good fish every time, and it’s even more expensive when you run a whole lot of toons But of course, it’s easier to cry than to protect yourself against the possibility of a gank innit? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/364 "2017-11-22T18:47:16Z")
That has to do only with gankers, most of which where false, especially the insurance or loss of pod. You are lying through your teeth, Mr. RPer. This is now about AG costs/opportunity to interfere rather than the entire system relying on NPC CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/365 "2017-11-22T18:50:01Z")
The title is not representative of the op’s paragraph then. And tbh, if there were no CONCORD, gankers would be gate camping in t3c, machariel and stuff… Do you think antigankers would be more inclined to shoot gankers then? Lol ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/366 "2017-11-22T18:52:46Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > And tbh, if there were no CONCORD Red herring and argumentum ad absurdum. Nobody has suggested removing CONCORD. Keep trying, but avoid logical fallacies, ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/367 "2017-11-22T18:53:48Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > But of course, it’s easier to cry than to protect yourself against the possibility of a gank innit? he weasels around, calling self responsibility - and i quote - “excessively tediuos and annoying”. He uses these words often. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/368 "2017-11-22T18:55:15Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > ag costs/opportunity to interfere rather than the entire system relying on NPC CONCORD. No talk of taking away CONCORD, but you want to not rely on them Why would HS need them if you don’t want them? You’re kinda negating your own argument here 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/369 "2017-11-22T18:58:32Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > CONCORD, as an NPC entity, expends no ingame resouces and in no way contributes to the player market, or player interaction within the game except by restricting player behavior. > > Player interaction should always be primary, and AG represents that as a response to HS ganking. > > This emergent content, player based, should be encouraged, not further infringed. I, and I hope most people, can agree to that. The problem is making it happen. The only way I see is to remove/nerf the NPCs so that there is some room for the players to respond. Doing that though lowers the cost of ganking, or at least modestly reduces the effort, which would have people like the OP up in arms. If there are no vigilantes around to do the job, removing the NPCs makes highsec residents less safe. I am fully on board the remove the faction police train, or at least create a window of security status where players can be the police before the facpo get involved, but I am not sure you are going to convince your average carebear that is better for them. Structures might also be one way but locking outlaws out of NPC stations but it would have farther reaching effects than just criminal/vigilante game play impacting on lowsec and FW pilots, and would be pretty silly with the facpo still around as the criminals could not defend their stations. Other than removing the facpo, I see solution to increasing the window of vulnerability for criminals without a full re-imagining of the system. The NPCs are just too efficient and keeping criminals docked. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/370 "2017-11-22T19:02:14Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > The only way I see is to remove/nerf the NPCs so that there is some room for the players to respond The threshold for player aggression resulting from security status can be reduced. This would not incur a CONCORD response, and would allow HS players to aggress known/earned criminals in HS. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/371 "2017-11-22T19:03:24Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > This would not incur a CONCORD response, and would allow HS players to aggress known/earned criminals in HS. That’s already a thing… ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/372 "2017-11-22T19:05:27Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > > > This would not incur a CONCORD response, and would allow HS players to aggress known/earned criminals in HS. > > That’s already a thing… Hi Dom, I think he means that we should stand still to give them a fighting chance of catching us. I think; it’s difficult to know… ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/373 "2017-11-22T19:05:36Z")
You.missed the point entirely, though I explicitly stated it. I said to to expand the security rating margin where HS entities can aggress known criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/374 "2017-11-22T19:07:22Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You.missed the point entirely, though I explicitly stated it. > > I said to to reduce the security rating margin where HS entitires can aggress known criminals. So, instead of -5, it should be…what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/375 "2017-11-22T19:07:27Z")
Excuse me, but apparently you guys forgot about the last update. CCP is already actively shifting the population towards fleet mining and defending. There is nothing that _needs_ to be done. CCP is actively breeding people who will fight back. Wtf did you think they introduce this for, especially when they reach out to new players with it, too? You just need to play along, really, and it’ll happen as if it happened all by itself. You guys just need to open your eyes and see that what CCP is doing, is growing a population, which gathers experiences in fleet battles, in highsec. they put randos together, and push towards people socializing. next to other things, is co-op PvE and NPCs that hunt you down a way of growing a population of self responsible people! Holy ■■■■, people, just ■■■■■■■ support it and play along! This age old war against suicide gankers Rod tries to fight… it’s over! They lost. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/376 "2017-11-22T19:07:31Z")
You can already agress known criminals You’re saying nothing new lol You can try to make me the fool all you want, you’re only making yourself look like one ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/378 "2017-11-22T19:09:41Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > So, instead of -5, it should be…what, exactly? I would recommend a flat, intuitive 0 security rating as where entities in HS can aggress that character without CONCORD intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/380 "2017-11-22T19:11:24Z")
> [@Anyanka\_Funk](#): > > That is nullsec We are talking about character security rating, not sector security rating. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/381 "2017-11-22T19:12:09Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I would recommend a flat, intuitive 0 security rating as where entities in HS can aggress that character without CONCORD intervention. So anyone (anyone) who drops below 0 for whatever reason, in Highsec, becomes red-flashy… ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/382 "2017-11-22T19:12:46Z")
So every single toon with a sec status of 0 or lower can be freely shot? Wat ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/383 "2017-11-22T19:13:09Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > So anyone (anyone) who drops below 0 for whatever reason, in Highsec, becomes red-flashy… Yes. Thats right. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=18) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=20)