# The cost of suicide ganking is too low **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033 "2017-11-17T16:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/646 "2017-11-25T12:36:41Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > However, what could be happening over time is that a growing number of people wonder why they put up with this ■■■■ and it reaches a tipping point. You’re years late for this one to work. Before you even begin writing your post, think about the accuracy of the content in your post, as you begin formulating it. When you formulate during writing, then you will just post the first thing that comes to your mind (the brain spits out the patterns which fit best given the time it had to process), then it will be purely reactive and likely based on feelings, and therefore extremely likely to be off, or completely wrong. Like the above. It’s illogical for someone who actually considers reality: As the number of CONCORD kills went down over the years, we can not possibly move towards such a tipping point. The total ISK destroyed went up, but the number of people getting ganked went down significantly. It’s all about freighters and miners, which by itself, again, shows how insignificant suicide ganking has become in regards to influence on the population. Your argument is invalid. Like so many others. Can’t you do any ■■■■■■■ better? ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/647 "2017-11-25T14:01:05Z")
> [@yellow\_parasol](#): > > As the number of CONCORD kills went down over the years, we can not possibly move towards such a tipping point. The total ISK destroyed went up, but the number of people getting ganked went down significantly. It’s all about freighters and miners, which by itself, again, shows how insignificant suicide ganking has become in regards to influence on the population. If what you are saying is true, I have to wonder if there the decrease in concord kills is related to population decline combined with an increase in ganker efficiency. When you say total isk destroyed, are you talking about all of EVE or just suicide ganking? There are lots of variable that make identifying the exact causes difficult. Regardless, the most obvious inequity relative to other EVE activities, for me and several other posters here at least, is that the cost of suicide ganking is too low for what it is. You are ■■■■■■■ with people and there is the potential for tremendous profits. One would expect more risk to be involved on the part of the suicide ganker. Also, there is the lack of incentive for AG vigilantes. ---
**Author:** ![Charley\_Varrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/charley_varrick/32/134094_2.png) [@Charley\_Varrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Charley_Varrick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/648 "2017-11-25T14:30:31Z")
I used to get a lot of lols out of their ramblings and justifications for their dooshbaggary. Now I just scroll past them. They refuse to see the imbalance. Actually, they see the imbalance just fine they just don’t want to lose the advantage. EVE is risk vs reward. We take the risk. They take none. If they succeed they get the reward. If we succeed we get nothing. They hide behind game mechanics until the last second and leave us no way to effectively fight back. We must gimp our ships for a small chance to survive and end the end we are still at the mercy of their mood. Instead of understanding this they play forum wars and spew babble to corrupt and dilute the problem. Meanwhile EVEs population continues to decline. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/649 "2017-11-25T15:19:10Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > don’t attack the poster. That’s only a thing to do with people who don’t do it themselves. Here Teckos Pech showed he won’t make the effort to show respect in his post, he doesn’t deserve those efforts himself. I really wish those forums had a ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/650 "2017-11-25T15:45:09Z")
> [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > We take the risk. They take none. If they succeed they get the reward. If we succeed we get nothing. Thats complete bupkiss and you know it. Nothing =/= Surviving unscathed with your stuff and cargo completely intact while they are another 5m down on a lost ship. Choosing to be poorly positioned, badly fit and not aligned/orbitting and afk is not taking a risk for higher reward, its being suicidal for no extra benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/651 "2017-11-25T15:46:26Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > That’s only a thing to do with people who don’t do it themselves. Here Teckos Pech showed he won’t make the effort to show respect in his post, he doesn’t deserve those efforts himself. Why do you wish to emulate the behaviour of someone you consider beneath you, then? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/652 "2017-11-25T16:04:19Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I really wish those forums had a ignore list. Now _there_ is something we can agree on! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/653 "2017-11-25T17:47:16Z")
“you consider beneath you” is a state of mind you imagined. Just because we can’t discuss together doesn’t mean there is an ordered relation. Thinking so would be another case of “corelation is not causation”, maybe. Actually, since we both can’t discuss with the other, the ordered relation would become commutative and thus, an equality relation. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/654 "2017-11-25T17:49:06Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > That’s only a thing to do with people who don’t do it themselves. Here Teckos Pech showed he won’t make the effort to show respect in his post, he doesn’t deserve those efforts himself. Really, what part was not respectful? Or are you just annoyed I’m buying into your sophistry about evidence, correlation and how we learn? > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > EVE is risk vs reward. Yes, but not like you think. > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > We take the risk. They take none. If they succeed they get the reward. If we succeed we get nothing. Then why are you taking that risk? Serious question here. You admit that there is no upside to the risk. At least a gambling addict in Vegas could, in theory, win. Granted he’d probably just gamble it all away again. But here you are saying that hauling 8 billion in freighter provides not just little reward, but no reward…and yet you take on that risk. In the theory of risk there are, roughly, three ways of categorizing people: 1. Risk averse–these people mitigate risk and are prudent in their behavior. 2. Risk neutral–In this case if a sure thing and a gamble have the same payoff these people are indifferent between the two. 3. Risk seeking–these people actually derive utility from the risk taking, they enjoy it. As a consequence they take on risk. Based on what you have written you are risk seeking. You get a thrill out of doing it. But at the same time it seems you are upset…so assuming that you are not risk seeking…why do you do it? Why not move it in smaller batches that are less attractive for ganking. Why not put on reinforced bulkheads? Why not ask a buddy to scout for you? > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > Instead of understanding this they play forum wars and spew babble to corrupt and dilute the problem. Meanwhile EVEs population continues to decline. Look, I know that losing a large amount of in game assets is not fun. I’ve been there. Truly. I lost a jump freighter a few years back. 8 billion _poof_. But I took a risk and it bit me. I didn’t know I was taking so much risk, but I was. It was my fault. So why are you doing it when you _know_ that there is downside and no upside? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/655 "2017-11-25T17:52:06Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Really, what part was not respectful? The moment you started to show your opinion about me, you showed you are not concerned about a respectful discussion. I gave you my answer, I don’t expect you to understand this, reply or whatever. To me there is no discussion with you. You are free to waste your time with personal attacks I won’t bother to read, if you need it that much. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/656 "2017-11-25T17:57:11Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The moment you started to show your opinion about me, you showed you are not concerned about a respectful discussion. What, that I don’t think you understand Bayesian methods or that your views of how we come to believe things is false. Gee. You’re right that is such an awful insult. For example, opinion and beliefs are very much a part of science. Each scientist has his own beliefs and those beliefs cannot be divorced from his scientific work. I have even given examples. My view is we acknowledge this and that way it is not some hidden assumption that is constantly adds to disagreement vs. being put out there in the cold light of day for everyone to see. ---
**Author:** ![Aergri\_Evingod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aergri_evingod/32/116437_2.png) [@Aergri\_Evingod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aergri_Evingod)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/657 "2017-11-25T18:06:41Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > > > That’s only a thing to do with people who don’t do it themselves. Here Teckos Pech showed he won’t make the effort to show respect in his post, he doesn’t deserve those efforts himself. > > Really, what part was not respectful? > > Or are you just annoyed I’m buying into your sophistry about evidence, correlation and how we learn? > > > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > > > EVE is risk vs reward. > > Yes, but not like you think. > > > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > > > We take the risk. They take none. If they succeed they get the reward. If we succeed we get nothing. > > Then why are you taking that risk? Serious question here. You admit that there is no upside to the risk. At least a gambling addict in Vegas could, in theory, win. Granted he’d probably just gamble it all away again. But here you are saying that hauling 8 billion in freighter provides not just little reward, but no reward…and yet you take on that risk. In the theory of risk there are, roughly, three ways of categorizing people: > > 1. Risk averse–these people mitigate risk and are prudent in their behavior. > 2. Risk neutral–In this case if a sure thing and a gamble have the same payoff these people are indifferent between the two. > 3. Risk seeking–these people actually derive utility from the risk taking, they enjoy it. As a consequence they take on risk. > > Based on what you have written you are risk seeking. You get a thrill out of doing it. But at the same time it seems you are upset…so assuming that you are not risk seeking…why do you do it? Why not move it in smaller batches that are less attractive for ganking. Why not put on reinforced bulkheads? Why not ask a buddy to scout for you? > > > [@Charley\_Varrick](#): > > > > Instead of understanding this they play forum wars and spew babble to corrupt and dilute the problem. Meanwhile EVEs population continues to decline. > > Look, I know that losing a large amount of in game assets is not fun. I’ve been there. Truly. I lost a jump freighter a few years back. 8 billion _poof_. But I took a risk and it bit me. I didn’t know I was taking so much risk, but I was. It was my fault. So why are you doing it when you _know_ that there is downside and no upside? as the risk seeking/neutral/averse axis is one could it be that there is a pvp averse/fandom/semi/full professional axis and last together with a socialicer and achiever axis there is some kind of 3d space to describe player behaviour. just musing ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/658 "2017-11-25T18:08:47Z")
OMG Can you waffle nonsense any harder? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/659 "2017-11-25T18:23:39Z")
Can YOU ? You were assuming something that is trivially absurd. I just stated the absurd of it. of course it is nonsense, that’s the main topic of the absurd. edit : I checked the definition, just in case I misunderstood that word. > beneath : at a lower level or layer than. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/660 "2017-11-25T19:45:19Z")
The funniest part is the way you claim that you dont think you are superior to everyone by acting all superior. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/661 "2017-11-25T19:52:05Z")
Well it’s not because you can’t understand my arguments that you are inferior. The only thing inferior, IMO, is the amount of effort you deserve : if you can’t understand me, there is no point in making any. But if you think you are inferior, well I can’t help you with that. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/662 "2017-11-25T19:53:09Z")
Lets keep it on topic and less about your self, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/663 "2017-11-25T19:54:22Z")
so far only YOU brought my self on the topic. Please don’t consider my post as a sign of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/664 "2017-11-25T19:57:28Z")
Your comments are still not addressing the very basic fact that ganking always costs the ganker his ship while someone on the ball loses nothing if the gank doesnt break tank or catch him fast enough. Therefore the cost of ganking is more than than the cost of successfully dodging it. ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/665 "2017-11-25T19:57:42Z")
Well put and very true. Anderson Geten, just ignore him like everyone else already does. You can’t get anywhere with people like that, and it only ends up further derailing the thread trying to counter the constant inanity. Lets hear some opinions on what should happen, if anything, to facpo/concord and what ship types should be able to bypass an anti-grief shield and gank in HS. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=34)