# The cost of suicide ganking is too low **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033 "2017-11-17T16:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/707 "2017-11-26T23:31:10Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > > That’s a lot of pent-up frustration right there, Rod. Let it go, man. > > That is projection. I’m not the one going around beating up on defenseless randoms and noobs to feel good about myself. Truth hurt? Suck it up. It is obvious that EVE is too easy for suicide gankers and it is beyond time for some equity. Surely it’s only projection if it originates with me? You’ll not meet a calmer ganker than this one anywhere in Highsec. I like your style though, Rod. Now, turn all that spite into an anti-ganking campaign using the very tools with which CCP has provided you. I think you’d be a fearsome (if easily triggered) opponent. You’re welcome to the bumps… ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/708 "2017-11-26T23:38:03Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > (yet I think he is an alt too) I got a bit confused. Did you mean _my_ character is an alt, Anderson? On the old forums, the Crime and Punishment sub-forum was my home. There, we had a kind of unenforceable non-CCP rule: Post on your Main or GTFO. The reason for this was that folks would come into the forum, talk big about what they’d do to us, then disappear. None of them were prepared to post with their main characters because they didn’t want to be tracked in-game. Huh. I’ve always posted on Sasha Nemtsov. For better or worse, he _is_ my main, and not an alt. If you weren’t referring to me, I apologise. ---
**Author:** ![DerpimusPrime\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/derpimusprime_aihaken/32/184957_2.png) [@DerpimusPrime\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DerpimusPrime_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/709 "2017-11-26T23:45:13Z")
CCP give bowhead back and this “cant jump into a ship while red” is ridicolous. Make ganking fun again. #NotAllGankers ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/711 "2017-11-27T00:16:55Z")
Once again we see @Fabulous_Rod wanting CCP to mitigate his risk vs. doing it himself. ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/713 "2017-11-27T01:08:05Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > Suicide ganking is not real pvp because pvp implies that both players are in the game. Many suicide gank targets are not even aware of the possibilies because the game does not inform them sufficiently of the rules of high sec, and it seems absolutly moronic to not consider them victims. The game can’t inform an adult of everything, adults often prefer to learn experientially, and often don’t consider risk themselves (which is why they sue companies that don’t do it for them). Being ganked is learning through experience, and coming to the forums and reading threads like this will inevitably expose such people to solutions. Honestly its a game, sometimes you die, you learn from it. I lost a porpoise on my alt (in null) a couple of weeks ago not because I didn’t know everything I needed to know, its simply that I didn’t consider the cirtical issues of flying more than 1 character which meant I forgot to turn boosts off, which meant it didn’t dock, and I got tackled in an obscure place ( refinery with no ore up), but I’m not here whining to CCP about boosts/tethering and docking, I’ve just changed my load out, and ‘neutrals entering system’ routine to avoid more losses of the same type. ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/714 "2017-11-27T01:40:12Z")
> [@Coralas](#): > > The game can’t inform an adult of everything, adults often prefer to learn experientially, and often don’t consider risk themselves suicide ganking is something that players should be informed about considering the potential for devastating losses. You could go a long time without knowing it, hauling all your worth back and forth until it got big enough to be a devastating loss, and you are more than likely to learn the hard way. Its easy to assume that nothing can attack you in HS without being blown up immediately. There is nothing in the game that informs the player of the differences in concord reaction times in different security statuses, and that this is an exploited thing. Gankers rely on this lack of knowledge for a large portion of their victims, just as how the margin-trading scam used to work before CCP pulled their head out. It is time they do so with suicide ganking. Its not really pvp unless both players know they are in the game, it is just a shitty moment for one party through no fault of their own, and then suicide gankers, who risk nothing, will come and tell them that this is how they are supposed to learn, by being victims of poor game design. It is trash and every intelligent person knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/715 "2017-11-27T02:00:06Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > > [@Coralas](#): > > > > The game can’t inform an adult of everything, adults often prefer to learn experientially, and often don’t consider risk themselves > > suicide ganking is something that players should be informed about considering the potential for devastating losses. You could go a long time without knowing it, hauling all your worth back and forth until it got big enough to be a devastating loss, and you are more than likely to learn the hard way. Its easy to assume that nothing can attack you in HS without being blown up immediately. There is nothing in the game that informs the player of the differences in concord reaction times in different security statuses, and that this is an exploited thing. Gankers rely on this lack of knowledge for a large portion of their victims, just as how the margin-trading scam used to work before CCP pulled their head out. It is time they do so with suicide ganking. The course finder puts square boxes up on a default UI to show the course. Those are yellow when you route through 0.5s. Also if you keep hauling all your stuff, you’ll probably lose it in an iteron when its only a few weeks worth of effort. > [@](#): > > Its not really pvp unless both players know they are in the game, it is just a shitty moment for one party, and then suicide gankers who risk nothing will come and say that their victims are expected to eat this through no fault of their own. The same person that does this, will import 1 ratting ship and nothing else to null, and then complain that they can’t pvp because all they have is a 1 billion isk fitted ratting ship - which they’ll only discover when pvp arrives. This game has also been around forever, and virtually nobody comes to it unaware of its reputation. You don’t think people fail ragequit out of other games when they lose a battle ? > [@](#): > > It is trash and every intelligent person knows it. No, its a game that rewards preparation, and occasionally, randomly punishes stupid things. Much like real life. ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/716 "2017-11-27T02:08:32Z")
> [@Coralas](#): > > The course finder puts square boxes up on a default UI to show the course. Those are yellow when you route through 0.5s You missed it. How is the player supposed to know that yellow means a slower concord reaction time? Even if you ask about this the majority of responses will tell you it has to do with NPC difficulty. anyways, this is besides the main point of the thread, which many here seems to want to ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/717 "2017-11-27T02:12:59Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > > [@Coralas](#): > > > > The course finder puts square boxes up on a default UI to show the course. Those are yellow when you route through 0.5s > > You missed it. How is the player supposed to know that yellow means a slower concord reaction time? Even if you ask about this the majority of responses will tell you it has to do with NPC difficulty. > > anyways, this is besides the main point of the thread, which many here seems to want to ignore. Nope - you’ve missed the point entirely, nobody will look up why the security colour is different, they’ll go try and experience it. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/718 "2017-11-27T04:01:11Z")
I gave this post a like because it is true, I admire the poster for being honest. In fact this post could actually put a stop to freight ganking all together if people read it and learned the lesson within it. ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/719 "2017-11-27T04:04:11Z")
> [@Coralas](#): > > Nope - you’ve missed the point entirely, nobody will look up why the security colour is different, they’ll go try and experience it. You answer was vague, and wrong. They would more likely ask someone first than experiment attacking blues in various security statuses, and the response much more often than not is that it has to do with NPC difficulty, not concord reaction times. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/720 "2017-11-27T04:06:53Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > > [@Coralas](#): > > > > The game can’t inform an adult of everything, adults often prefer to learn experientially, and often don’t consider risk themselves > > suicide ganking is something that players should be informed about considering the potential for devastating losses. You could go a long time without knowing it, hauling all your worth back and forth until it got big enough to be a devastating loss, and you are more than likely to learn the hard way. Its easy to assume that nothing can attack you in HS without being blown up immediately. There is nothing in the game that informs the player of the differences in concord reaction times in different security statuses, and that this is an exploited thing. Gankers rely on this lack of knowledge for a large portion of their victims, just as how the margin-trading scam used to work before CCP pulled their head out. It is time they do so with suicide ganking. > > Its not really pvp unless both players know they are in the game, it is just a shitty moment for one party through no fault of their own, and then suicide gankers, who risk nothing, will come and tell them that this is how they are supposed to learn, by being victims of poor game design. > > It is trash and every intelligent person knows it. I wish I could down vote what @Fabulous_Rod said. I’m sorry but his response shows severe lack of understanding with what happens in Eve, I’m not even bothered to say specifically whats wrong because I dont want to get in a long convo. All I can say is that the fact you are logging into Eve should mean that you are already informed about where you are and what can happen if youre not careful. ---
**Author:** ![Fabulous\_Rod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fabulous_rod/32/34799_2.png) [@Fabulous\_Rod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fabulous_Rod)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/721 "2017-11-27T04:09:33Z")
Maybe a better idea is a module that you would have to equip to break though the proposed high sec anti-ganker shield, and the cost would be 50 mil or so for the module. ---
**Author:** ![Pix\_Severus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pix_severus/32/394032_2.png) [@Pix\_Severus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pix_Severus)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/722 "2017-11-27T05:40:46Z")
The best idea is to learn how to play without throwing salt all over the forums because a ganker once touched you in a naughty place. ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/723 "2017-11-27T06:21:53Z")
> [@Fabulous\_Rod](#): > > > [@Coralas](#): > > > > Nope - you’ve missed the point entirely, nobody will look up why the security colour is different, they’ll go try and experience it. > > You answer was vague, and wrong. They would more likely ask someone first than experiment attacking blues in various security statuses, and the response much more often than not is that it has to do with NPC difficulty, not concord reaction times. Nope - gameplayers are known not to read manuals, there is already extensive tutorial and if you were to test players afterwards they might remember they saved someone, but the only way any significant number of them would remember the implications of concord response time is if the tutorial required them to gank something in each sec status. Perhaps that would be a better tutorial 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/725 "2017-11-27T08:13:52Z")
**To return to topic:** I think it can be widely agreed, that AGs means to prevent/intervene in ganks or engage gankers are pretty limited in HS, from a design perspective. Gankers use low value ships, making AGs efforts rather low reward, unless the target they save tips them. I get the CODE/AG rivalry, but its pretty clear whom has the harder job. I dont like people poopooing on AG. They are nonetheless trying to generate emergent content in a system of mechanics that largely work against them. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/726 "2017-11-27T08:19:53Z")
I still think antiga would see better results if they used education rather than ammunition as their primary. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/727 "2017-11-27T08:22:52Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I still think antiga would see better results if they used education rather than ammunition as their primary. I agree, given their limited systemic means. That and perhaps re-organize as a hired escort service, or atleast form a trustworthy/reliable escort detachment for hire. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/728 "2017-11-27T08:26:14Z")
Perhaps even something so simple as offering the services of a single webbing frigate to help the escorted vessel engage warp faster should they get bumped/attacked. Even noobs could do that for some isk. These webbing escorts could also be provided with a list of known gank accounts to set to red. Shame there is no module a 3rd party can use to aid breaking point on another ship. That same webbing frigate could then also inform the main AG body of a gank impending/in progress. * * * Or perhaps a logi or ECM escort? Ideally the escort would be as few ships as possible, and as cheap as possible. To either aid the targets escape, or delay the duration of the gank long enough for CONCORD to eliminate enough of the gankers to prevent its success. Im no expert, but I think it wouldnt take all that much intervention by a 3rd escorting party to upset the Gankers min/maxed calculations/preparations enough to swing the result in favor of the target. I havent thought this through. Just brainstorming. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/729 "2017-11-27T09:10:22Z")
Yes, it is likely. However people rarely feel need to educate them self when it’s dry and warm and nothing hurts. And usually people start to learn when they already suffered some consequences of their ignorance. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Perhaps even something so simple as offering the services of a single webbing frigate Too tricky. Webbing involves duel and it’s easily abusable. To make it a trusted service one would need to spend a lot of effort and control. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Or perhaps a logi or ECM escort? They will need to deal with suspect status. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I havent thought this through. Just brainstorming. Yea, maybe something will born out of it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=35) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=37)