# The cost of suicide ganking is too low **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 17, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033 "2017-11-17T16:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 48
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/971 "2017-11-28T14:01:36Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > What escort fits could AG offer to offset a gank fleet? Actually, you can’t. The gankers fleet has the advantage of selecting when they will attack. The bumper mach can go on for hours untill the freighter is far from the gate, and his team is actually ready to strike - then strike within a minute. When the ganker fleet is assembled, it’s already too late. Gankers learn from them mistakes, freighters on the other hand … well more freighters means less mistakes per freighter. Also, a ganker mistake costs much less than a freighter mistake. Let’s say the criminal flag remains for 24h. Now the price of making a mistake becomes not the loss of your ship, but the inability to attack another target (maybe a better one) for 24h. Sure they can cycle their alts. Well, let’s make the criminal flag only count down when actually in space. Whenever you get podded =\> you need to alt tab and dedock your pod. Or maybe only 24h for -10, for better ss still 15 min. I think THAT would even a bit more the “risk vs reward”. Without increasing the financial cost of ganking, it would imped gank by hitting the only resource we invest in Eve : time. Also I thought CCP wanted to remove those 2-h mach bump. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/972 "2017-11-28T14:02:18Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Actually, you can’t. yes you can. _you_ mightn’t be able but i have seen it done. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/973 "2017-11-28T14:04:14Z")
What? None yet as every time Ive asked a pertinent question about the op to allow me to get there its been ignored. Why do you ask? Im not criticising the quality of previous info or its deliverer so why ask that? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/974 "2017-11-28T14:04:23Z")
Yeah, using nestors to heal the freighter. How long did those nestors have to wait ? THAT is the point, not the (in)ability to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/975 "2017-11-28T14:04:56Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Actually, you can’t. Its not possible to prevent/neutralize a gank effort with a web frigate or logi/ecm escort? Thats a problem then, as it relegates the system to an NPC/CONCORD reaction, over player intervention. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/976 "2017-11-28T14:07:36Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > not the (in)ability to do it. yeah actually , it is. you can, you just couldn’t be bothered, thats on you. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its not possible to prevent/neutralize a gank effort with a web frigate or logi/ecm escort? a loki or rapier would be better (range) but yeah, those work. edit: scouts work even better though 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/977 "2017-11-28T14:07:44Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > None yet as every time Ive asked a pertinent question about the op to allow me to get there its been ignored. Im not OP. I havent ignored your questions, though you seem to be avoiding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/978 "2017-11-28T14:09:45Z")
The “gank” term is too broad. It depends mainly one what you mean by “gank”. Considering we are discussing the freighter gank, with bump machs. Basically each RR can only heal against a few ships. You need to have your RR focused because the gank will last less than half a minute, while the preparation to the gank can last hours. So they effectively need to be focused for potentially several hours, while the mach(s) is bumping the freighter. I don’t mean it didn’t happen. But gankers learn from them, and adapt to avoid this case of loss. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/979 "2017-11-28T14:10:08Z")
If you’ve got a logi escort, they should also be packing a web or two, you’re unlikely to be targeted. Gankers go for the low hanging fruit. The afk, the untanked, the lazy and the greedy, or any combination thereof are their primary prey. For example: I haul with a Nereus, with my current fit and skills it aligns like a cruiser and it’ll take 3 balls to the walls max DPS cats and their pilots, or between 4 and 5 random pilots in cats to kill it. With my isk limit on cargo they’ll be lucky to break even on the loot. I’m not profitable, thus my risk goes down. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/980 "2017-11-28T14:10:35Z")
Again I didnt say you were. And what question(s) have I not answered? Where are you going with this? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/981 "2017-11-28T14:11:13Z")
> [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](#): > > a loki or rapier would be better (range) but yeah, those work As we discussed with Anderson, it seems its possible to initiate duel with the escorted vessel at first instance, and maintain that state through subsequent gates. As such, the webber should be able to initiate the web as soon as the escorted vessel decloaks at a gate, minus target-lock time. I dont see why a Loki or Rapier would be preferable, except for a potentially faster lock, but also a magnitude of cost. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/982 "2017-11-28T14:13:02Z")
range, go follow a ship down a pipe for a couple of jumps and itl be clear ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/983 "2017-11-28T14:13:45Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The “gank” term is too broad. It depends mainly one what you mean by “gank”. In this context, we are talking about an HS gank, in which the target is pointed or bumped, and a gank fleet explodes it, in criminal action, before CONCORD can wreck the gank fleet. Bumping may, or may not, be a part of that. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/984 "2017-11-28T14:16:08Z")
> [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](#): > > range, go follow a ship down a pipe for a couple of jumps and itl be clear Since the webber will in almost all cases have a faster align/AU travel speed than the escorted ship, I dont see what you mean. Even if the timing is off, the escorted vessel has 30s of gate cloak, allowing for the escort to arrive intime to initiate the next web. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/985 "2017-11-28T14:16:20Z")
> [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](#): > > you can, you just couldn’t be bothered, thats on you. what do you mean, “you” can ? Nobody can be sure it will be enough. a logi escort is just a way to say “if you want this, you’ll need more than expected”. you CAN defeat any logi escort with enough gankers. > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Gankers go for the low hanging fruit. The afk, the untanked, the lazy and the greedy or any combination thereof are their primary prey. Gankers can also go for freighters for the lulz. Sometimes PH suicide gank random freighters in Uedama. People get bored. People make mistakes, or API make mistakes(OMFG JUICY SKIN). ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/986 "2017-11-28T14:18:57Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > you CAN defeat any logi escort with enough gankers. and anyone _can_ get through my front door with a heavy enough hammer, dosent make locking the damn thing pointless now does it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/987 "2017-11-28T14:21:39Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Even if the timing is off, the escorted vessel has 30s of gate cloak, allowing for the escort to arrive intime to initiate the next web. what he means is, you uncloak at 10 km (?) from the gate, which is 15km radius, you can go up to 50km from the freighter. You thus need to bounce to a ping 150+ from the gate, then warp back to the freighter once he jumped in(and not uncloaked yet). Set your overview to “active timer only”, activate web, spam click on the empty overview until the freighter aligns. with long range web you only need the second part. but they don’t web as much as dd. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/988 "2017-11-28T14:22:27Z")
yes, once everybody realizes he needs a heavy enough hammer to get invited. And of course once the price of “heavy enough hammer” is low enough. Which is the topic of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/989 "2017-11-28T14:24:00Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Gankers can also go for freighters for the lulz. > > Sometimes PH suicide gank random freighters in Uedama. I can almost guarantee that 90% of the lulz kills would fall into one of the categories I listed, most probably afk. Using AP flags you as being of interest, dropping out of warp @ 15KM make it obvious that you’re doing it. > [@](#): > > you CAN defeat any logi escort with enough gankers. You could kill the Veldnaught with enough Corvettes, and you could do it before Concordokken happens. @Chribba , hallowed be his name, is on record as saying that ganking the Veldnaught would receive a well deserved GF in local ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033/990 "2017-11-28T14:24:09Z")
You guys don’t realize that Anderson is in no way or form interested in _learning_. She’s interested in _debating_ and comparing her understanding to yours. From my perspective this conversation is a waste of time, as certain parts of the conversation apparently only have theory and mistake it for practise. That’s also where these “can not work” responses also come from. I’d advise rethinking the approach, because as it is it is useless. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=47) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-cost-of-suicide-ganking-is-too-low/40033.md?page=49)