# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2081 "2018-10-10T08:43:20Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > If I was a CEO of a 1000+ man corp, I could do all this already. Not like you can if Social Corps are implemented as people have described them here. Simplifies the process immensely and offers advantages the current NPC/Player Corp split does not. The powerful/large will be better able to exploit this, than the new/weak. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2082 "2018-10-10T08:54:55Z")
You honestly think, if I was managing 1000+ plus people, setting up Wardec Hop corps would be difficult for me? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2083 "2018-10-10T08:55:56Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > You honestly think, if I was managing 1000+ plus people, setting up Wardec Hop corps would be difficult for me? > Really? Then why do you want Social Corps as described here? As you claimed, all of this can already be done via NPC and Player Corps. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2084 "2018-10-10T08:59:25Z")
Because there are players asking for it. Ones that have lost friends because of Wardecs, and when you think about, they aren’t really asking for much, or anything game breaking. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2085 "2018-10-10T09:05:26Z")
No, this will not happen. It is already happening, because players already use NPC corps for this. It is merely dumb players of large alliances, who haul their stuff with in-corp pilots through high-sec, not realising with whom they are at war and then get shot at trade routes and market hubs. It’s the same with pilots who load up 10b+ ISKs into their freighters only to find out that it doesn’t even need a wardec to kill them. In your drama do you also ignore that your so called pipeline needs to run through low- and null-sec. Yet your “null-sec infiltration drama” completely ignores this problem, which means not only are you purposely ignoring the current situation, but you’re purposely drawing a false picture. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2086 "2018-10-10T09:06:37Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > No, this will not happen. It is already happening, because players already use NPC corps for this. Then the Social Corp concept is pointless, as it all can already be done via NPC and Player Corps, as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2087 "2018-10-10T09:07:23Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Then the Social Corp concept is pointless, as it all can already be done via NPC and Player Corps, as you claim. It isn’t. It’s the social aspect of it that matters. You do know what social means, right? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2088 "2018-10-10T09:08:20Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > It’s the social aspect of it that matters. Player Corps are already social. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2089 "2018-10-10T09:09:57Z")
No. Social corps will obviously be able to dock at Citadels. NPC corp members can dock at citadels. NPC corp members (& NPC corps) can be white listed at citadels. And Null alliances want those players out in Null joining the alliance, not hiding in highsec. Onzo is literally complaining about a scenario that has been possible for years already yet hasn’t happened. Which says it won’t happen. While utterly missing the whole point of social corps, which is to address the dramatic drop in activity and loss of players referred to from wardecs, by creating a social environment to build connections where they aren’t under wardec threat. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2090 "2018-10-10T09:10:04Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Player Corps are already social. You haven’t really been in one lately, have you? NPC corps are cesspits and often filled with toxic pilots. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2091 "2018-10-10T09:10:44Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > You haven’t really been in one lately, have you? They’re cesspits and often filled with toxic pilots. What makes you think Social Corps wont be, as well? This is not an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2092 "2018-10-10T09:12:02Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > What makes you think Social Corps wont be, as well? Good that you ask. For one, you choose social people into your social corps, and anyone aggressive gets kicked out and can join a war corporation. And with that said could one rename the current corporations into “war corporation” to make it more clearer for new players what these are really about. Also, since we have role players in EVE who have asked for it, should players be allowed to choose which NPC corporations they go to. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2093 "2018-10-10T09:14:53Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Good that you ask. For one, you choose social people into your social corps, and anyone aggressive gets kicked out and can join a war corporation. Player Corps can already do that. They only let in whom they approve, and can kick out anyone they dont approve of. This is not an argument for Social Corps. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2094 "2018-10-10T09:16:16Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Player Corps can already do that. No. The current player corporations cannot function as social corporations when they’re also exposed to warfare. Did you not follow the topic at all? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2095 "2018-10-10T09:17:42Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > The current player corporations cannot function as social corporations when they’re also exposed to warfare. Player Corps are still social, regardless of whether they are at war or not. Players can also set up private chat channels for social interaction, which they can moderate themselves as to whom is allowed in, what is allowed, and whom they kick out. These are not arguments for a Social Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2096 "2018-10-10T09:20:53Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Also, since we have role players in EVE who have asked for it, should players be allowed to choose which NPC corporations they go to. I think players should be able to join any NPC Corp they want, if they have sufficient standing with that NPC Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2097 "2018-10-10T09:24:05Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > These are not arguments for a Social Corp. Of course these are. Some players want them and as you have shown yourself are they no risk at all to the current game. Further more will their introduction help to reduce the number of normal corps to a number, which contains pilots who are actually willing to fight. Social corporations will remove many of the currently fake corporations from the pool of warfare corporations. That’s a win. Players who want a fight and declare war then more often find targets and don’t have to resort to spamming wardecs. Do take a look at the war history of Marmite for example. See how often a war has lead to kills. It’s amazing how little actually happens, yet they declare war systematically against everyone. In short, we have far too many fake corporations than actual warfare corporations in EVE. Social corporations will actually help to make wardecs more meaningful. We then need to improve the warfare itself by giving players back their intel tools. Removing wardecs is the wrong way. Making warfare fun again, and for those who want it, is what this game needs to draw players in. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2098 "2018-10-10T09:30:39Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Of course these are I explained above how they are not. I rebutted each of your arguments. As you yourself said, all of this is already possible through Player Corps, NPC Corps, and ingame chat networks. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2099 "2018-10-10T09:35:37Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I explained above how they are not. All you’ve really explained is why they are not a problem. Now you just need to catch up and realise why they’re good for improving corporate warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2100 "2018-10-10T09:39:33Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > All you’ve really explained is why they are not a problem. All of it can already done with Player Corps, NPC Corps and ingame/out of game chat channels and comms. Nothing you have said in anyway justifies adding a Social Corp to the existing system which already caters to everything a Social Corp would. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=102) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=104)