# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 107
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2161 "2018-10-10T11:30:50Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I recommended a 3+ stage process. > First issue an isk incentive to return after wardec. > Second issue victory condition system. > Third implement wardec structure system into the above. ISK incentive is an idea I don’t like, just brings more ISK into the system. Victory conditions are a good idea, this gives those willing to fight something to focus on, as long as they are acheivable and suitable for newer players. I’m on the fence about structures, I think victory conditions may be better. A structure to destroy may be one of those optional conditions though, give the defenders a choice. The biggest problem though is that a lot of those in hisec actually like the PvE aspects of EvE, but want nothing to do with wars, political drama etc. They are still paying players and should still have something they can do. This is why I lean towards using system sec status to limit war scope geographically, but also mission levels to offset this. If you want to have higher level missions available, put yourself at risk. Want a citadel for mining, manufacture, a home, then put yourself at risk. Need to sell loot at Jita, put yourself at risk or learn the valuale lesson of Out-of-corp alts. These need to be choices, with the lower level missions still being available giving newer players something to do under wardec if they choose. As (Pedro I think) pointed out, none of this can be overnight. It needs to be designed and implemented properly. The sec system/mission level shift wuld probably be the easiest to include as a faster fix to stop the bleeding out of newer players. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2162 "2018-10-10T11:31:07Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > But that addresses not a single relevant thing about my post What where your relevant single things. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2163 "2018-10-10T11:33:31Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > I read that players need to leave first and be incentivized to return. > I’m asking, what are you suggestions to keep them playing, rather than feeling the need to leave in the first place? These are answered in the thread. The isk incentive is to encourage them to return. The wardec victory conditions are to encourage them to remain. The wardec structure system is to encourage them to join up, and hire, to take out that structure to end the wars on them they dont want. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2164 "2018-10-10T11:36:28Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Please read thread. You first, please. We’ve already said war with goals and rewards is what faction warfare is for. Corporate warfare is free warfare. We don’t need to destroy the free warfare, because you and others cannot find the right direction. Choosing the wrong warfare, and not having a warfare-free corporation system, is what’s causing the misdirection in the first place. And I’m still waiting on your explanation how exactly you think this is supposed to work when the aggressor is paying the defender. It’s sounds fully retarded, unless you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2165 "2018-10-10T11:38:14Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > As (Pedro I think) pointed out, none of this can be overnight. No, it was I. Some dishonest, vested interest posters have been trying to demand the impossible, as a 100% efficient, perfect fix, tomorrow, or its a “bad suggestion”. That is neither resonable, possible, or helpful. I prpoposed a 3 stage plan, to first stick a finger in the leak, and then progressively reinforce the dam afterwards. Point is to remind people that things take time, and you cant fix complex problems, completely, tomorrow, in one go. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > ISK incentive is an idea I don’t like, just brings more ISK into the system. This was by Arrendis. Yes, it would reduce isk sink, but if it players return because of it, even at 10% rate, its worth it. The isk sink loss in incentive can easily, many times over, be compensated by what isk those players would generate in isk if they stayed, not to mention leaving players are BY FAR the largest isk sink delta in EVE, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2166 "2018-10-10T11:39:25Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Have you considered, that if Social Corps are implemented, CODE can form into one, and be unwardeccable, continue suicide ganking, and have all the other benefits a Player Corp offers, even without a structure to their name? Corporation isnt even needed to gank people. Only much of alts or people together on comms. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2167 "2018-10-10T11:40:07Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > … but **if** it players return because of it … If … So you don’t actually know or understand what it will do nor why players leave in the first place. Players are not asking for ISKs. They have been asking for social corporations. At what point are you willing to give them what they actually want? It seems to me that you want what you want, and not what they want. It’s however them who are leaving and not you. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2168 "2018-10-10T11:40:30Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > The isk incentive is to encourage them to **return**. I want to hear your suggestions how you keep players in game, all your premise is on players leaving and ‘hopefully’ returning. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2169 "2018-10-10T11:45:13Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Corporation isnt even needed to gank people. Only much of alts or people together on comms. Correct. Which again makes the Social Corp idea defunct and superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2170 "2018-10-10T11:46:50Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > I want to hear your suggestions how you keep players in game, all your premise is on players leaving and ‘hopefully’ returning. I answered this before, like within the last 20mins, to you. I cant help you, if you dont read. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > These are answered in the thread. > > The isk incentive is to encourage them to return. > The wardec victory conditions are to encourage them to remain. > The wardec structure system is to encourage them to join up, and hire, to take out that structure to end the wars on them they dont want. The above was an answer to YOU, specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2171 "2018-10-10T11:47:11Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I cant help you, if you dont read. Right back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2172 "2018-10-10T11:48:27Z")
Because it doesnt matter for CODEies, doesnt mean it would not work for those who log out when wardecced. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2173 "2018-10-10T11:48:40Z")
Try reading the question. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2174 "2018-10-10T11:50:11Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > Try reading the question. Try reading the answer. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > These are answered in the thread. > > The isk incentive is to encourage them to return. > The wardec victory conditions are to encourage them to remain. > The wardec structure system is to encourage them to join up, and hire, to take out that structure to end the wars on them they dont want. You asked how to retain them. Its clearly answered in the above, now posted to you for the 3rd time. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2175 "2018-10-10T11:50:37Z")
That’s why I stopped replying to him. He talks a lot, reads your replies and still thinks his own ideas are the only way to go. To narcissistic for my taste. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2176 "2018-10-10T11:54:05Z")
You guys need to stop believing that anything he says is going to influence CCP. It won’t. Yet everyone behaves as if it all depended on him, or the few self important posters who keep writing like it does. It doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2177 "2018-10-10T11:54:41Z")
@Proteus_Onzo I mean @Salvos_Rhoska (or was it @Norian_Rever) Didn’t you claim you were quitting and biomassing just last week? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2178 "2018-10-10T11:55:12Z")
He’s definitively not Salvos. In all likelihood is he Dryver. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2179 "2018-10-10T11:56:29Z")
What if Dyver is also Salvos? 🤔 _puts tinfoil hat_ ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2180 "2018-10-10T11:56:50Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > You guys need to stop believing that anything he says is going to influence CCP. > > It won’t. Social Corps is not going to happen. As has been claimed by its advocates, everything that could do, is already doable with Player Corps, NPC Corps, chat and comms etc, so its a pointless change with no change. Those same people admitted that. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=106) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=108)