# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/201 "2018-10-03T11:46:19Z")
If highsec war deccers are running for you, then you’re saying we have no problem at all. Case closed. 😂😂😂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/202 "2018-10-03T11:46:24Z")
Could you correct your quote please? As it’s actually for Salvos, sorry, Norian. Rather than what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sethyrh_nakrar/32/12695_2.png) [@Sethyrh\_Nakrar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sethyrh_Nakrar)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/203 "2018-10-03T11:46:49Z")
No. Just no. VNIs are dying like flies. Also normal vexors work too. Problem is: A carrier or supercarrier rushes throu a site. A VNI takes ages for the same site. Also. I´ve trained for a carrier. So I wanna use it. How long is a VNI taking to train? About 1-2mo? How long is a carrier, supercarrier to train? LOL. Thats why they are more efficient. It takes time and effort. to train, get, and even use the damn thing. I could burn VNIs all day. But I prefer not to fall asleep when playing. Thats why I am not mining too. Same reason. ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/204 "2018-10-03T11:47:51Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > Could you correct your quote please? The quote is not labelled, but the post is addressed to you. Its not hard, Steve. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/205 "2018-10-03T11:48:54Z")
Corrected. > [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > The quote is not labelled Because corrected. That is not important. Whats important, when changes to wardec system? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/206 "2018-10-03T11:49:35Z")
My current thought on a fix involves having a structure which ‘anchors’ the war. if it dies, the war dies with it. Gives the defender a way to ‘force’ a fight. And gives allies something to do. It’s flawed, but I think it’s less flawed than the current system. [https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/2015/10/11/solving-the-wardec-problem/](https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/2015/10/11/solving-the-wardec-problem/) was my last post on the matter. My thoughts haven’t changed a great deal since then. ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/207 "2018-10-03T11:50:49Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > My current thought on a fix You ripped this off from @Dracvlad. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/208 "2018-10-03T11:50:49Z")
You still remember that Fanfest a few years back, where CCP said the exactly the opposite of what you are claiming here? And how surprised they were to see it? ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/209 "2018-10-03T11:51:33Z")
> [@nomadd79](#): > > Disagree. I think wardec mechanics **are** totally broken. > > I think war decs need to be changed in a way to force the aggressors to actually fight, not just camp gates and undocks waiting for easy pickings. They are only easy pickings because they make themselves it, dying to war dec’s is **completely** avoidable. If these players are flying freighters to gates in wars you really think they got the brains to actually fight back? The issue is they **dont** want to fight back, reason or not you cannot force a non pvper to want to pvp in a game where they actually lose something. > [@nomadd79](#): > > LMAO. I’ve been part of a few fleets that formed to take on HS wardeccers but you guys tend to run away. > > Maybe it’s y’all that need to HTFU, take a break from killing haulers and _actually take fights_ ?? We take fights but null sec alliances tend to take the wrong approach to getting a fight, usually they fill the system with 60 reds and sit in local shouting “fight me broz” when were 9 players with like 20 characters. Or you come down the pipe in a big blob straight past our eyes, high sec aint much different from null sec when it comes to gathering intel. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > from the stats, appear to drive people out of the game. May I have a link to these stats or them be made public? > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > My current thought on a fix involves having a structure which ‘anchors’ the war. if it dies, the war dies with it. > > Gives the defender a way to ‘force’ a fight. And gives allies something to do. > > It’s flawed, but I think it’s less flawed than the current system. Yet again, won’t make people **want** to pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/210 "2018-10-03T11:52:22Z")
I remember them saying something about people who were ganked being more likely to stay, rather than about war decs. (I’ll admit, I may be mis-remembering. Or remembering something different from you.) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/211 "2018-10-03T11:53:45Z")
Steve how about looking at this and thinking about it: > [@The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/183): > > WAR DECLERATIONS I don’t think the current war dec system is broken as such, just that the players are destroying it. The current system overall is pretty good but what it needs is some adjustment in key areas. I joined the war dec discord, but some people did not want me there, it is what it is. There are a number of important factors to take into account, and the most simple one to attack is to put some skin in the game for war deckers, Jin’Taan had suggested a Propaganda structure, I ha… And please note enhancing the defenders ability to gang up together, it is important… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/212 "2018-10-03T11:54:50Z")
If I did, it was 3 years ago I did it. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/213 "2018-10-03T11:56:15Z")
![34](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/f/6/f67876a3b5caccfeb069d379ca3506e179d8fcc4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![nomadd79](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomadd79/32/318737_2.png) [@nomadd79](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nomadd79)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/214 "2018-10-03T11:57:08Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > My current thought on a fix involves having a structure which ‘anchors’ the war. if it dies, the war dies with it. > > Gives the defender a way to ‘force’ a fight. And gives allies something to do. This is what I’m thinking too As I said in [my post](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/152) I would also restrict how many war dec structures could be anchored per system so If a corp wants to wardec hundreds, they would need to spread themselves and their resources out all over New Eden. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Deadlift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_deadlift/32/237982_2.png) [@CCP\_Deadlift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Deadlift)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/215 "2018-10-03T11:57:57Z")
i already messaged my Brasilian friend who is a chef to ask for a recipe approved by her 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/216 "2018-10-03T11:58:32Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > We care a great deal about HS wardecs. We care that they have a negative impact on the people who are least able to deal with them. We care that the most effective counterplay to them is ‘don’t log on’ or ‘leave your corp’. That they, from the stats, appear to drive people out of the game. “suddenly” you care a great deal? Problem is already rotting. What you did about it? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/217 "2018-10-03T11:58:55Z")
Wardecs are something the CSM as a whole have been focusing on, for a while now. (Surprised me, I have to admit. Though it shouldn’t. The majority of nullsec members on it have been pretty focused on the game as a whole, rather than just their little bit) We’ve been keeping an eye on the various threads of conversation the community has been having. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/218 "2018-10-03T11:59:04Z")
That data showed there on fanfest cant be extrapolated to wardec system causing what it causes. Its different situation. If CCP used that rookie death numbers to internally make decisions about wardec, its a glorious day when they decided to make some more research. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/219 "2018-10-03T11:59:12Z")
Bye bye small solo hunters, hello even bigger merged merc alliances. Bigger alliances, less costs to war dec. Result, more wars. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/220 "2018-10-03T12:02:12Z")
> [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > Bye bye small solo hunters, hello even bigger merged merc alliances. Bigger alliances, less costs to war dec. Result, more wars. Can you imagine how easy defence/attack contracts will be, as long as its timed correctly you could make citadels completely immune in high sec. Citadel on 3rd timer, blow up war dec structure, cant kill citadel. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=12)