# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2281 "2018-10-10T23:13:31Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Has madness been ruled out? Well, they play EVE, so… no. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2282 "2018-10-11T00:16:23Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Making war targets visible on the map Will this be free intel ? - or wiil you have to use a locator agent like everyone else - Maybe an extended function of a locator agent. Will it be just hisec ? - or do you intend low sec groups who live next to high sec to have a huge advantage vs hi-sec corp. Will the opposing force see it ? - So they will know when to hide - now that’s handy for care bears ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2283 "2018-10-11T00:23:29Z")
> [@Iowa\_Banshee](#): > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > Making war targets visible on the map > > Will this be free intel ? > > - or wiil you have to use a locator agent like everyone else - Maybe an extended function of a locator agent. > > Will it be just hisec ? > > - or do you intend low sec groups who live next to high sec to have a huge advantage vs hi-sec corp. > > Will the opposing force see it ? > > - So they will know when to hide - now that’s handy for care bears I’m not the person you’re replying to but I’ve considered these questions. 1. As an extended function, probably for a week duration 2. Why not everywhere. Apparently the issue with the watchlist was it was giving information on when super pilots (who can since that time now dock in keepstars) were online. 3. Of course the target will have the same opportunity. IMO, better for the targets to be playing around where the hunters are than to dock up, log off, and leave. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2284 "2018-10-11T00:25:48Z")
For this fun : Do you - Hunt them using locator agent or spies - Wait for them to fly into a system you are camping. - Blow up structures of the corp you war-dec - Patrol the area they use frequently ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2285 "2018-10-11T01:41:12Z")
Fir the record? I used to tease Dr. Eyjo about his graphs and mark each one (as a teacher) but for you toi say that they have bottom of the barrel emplyees? I take issue with that. Do you KNOW where Dr. Eyjo went upon leaving CCP? These are good folks and they have their bonafides in order. It is hard/easy for us to critique their translation of data without specifics of the data and the collection methodology, I get that. But please do not assume they are idiots who can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. m ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2286 "2018-10-11T01:53:39Z")
> [@Eve\_Griefer](#): > > Apparently the issue with the watchlist was it was giving information on when super pilots (who can since that time now dock in keepstars) were online. People complained about the Watchlist for a LONG TIME, and the only reason CCP decided to do something about it was not because of people calling for changes. It was because a group of people were abusing the log server so that they could get out of game notifications or pings when someone in-game had logged on. In their case they were using it to tell if a Super / Titan pilot was online, then logging in the appropriate sabre or HIC character and getting tackle on them before they would even finish their warp animation. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2287 "2018-10-11T02:59:52Z")
infiltration amongst other things 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2288 "2018-10-11T03:05:33Z")
I assume that you are posting with an alt as your corp & alliance have never been at war. So the corp you declare wars with - How many members does it have ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2289 "2018-10-11T05:58:28Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > _sips water_ it is good to stay hydrated m ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2290 "2018-10-11T06:00:59Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > People complained about the Watchlist for a LONG TIME, and the only reason CCP decided to do something about it **was not because of people calling for changes**. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > In their case they were using it to tell if a Super / Titan pilot was online Those are the people that complained and got it changed. You contradict yourself. No matter how bad the situation is, simply turning off wardecs will do far more harm. Its not an option, even temporarily. Red vs Blue and other legit wardecs would cease to provide content to thousands of players. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2291 "2018-10-11T06:04:21Z")
No, you miss the point I’m making Salvos. I’m saying that CCP didn’t make any changes to the watchlist UNTIL people were exploiting it with a tool that CCP packaged with their software. I am not wanting to get rid of wardecs. Dunno why you think this. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2292 "2018-10-11T06:06:12Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > No, you miss the point I’m making Salvos. Im not Salvos. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I’m saying that CCP didn’t make any changes to the watchlist UNTIL people were exploiting it with a tool that CCP packaged with their software. No, they changed it because people could use watchlist to detect super players logging on, and those players complained, period. No separate tool was necessary. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I am not wanting to get rid of wardecs. Dunno why you think this. I did not say you did. It was a general statement on that. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2293 "2018-10-11T06:15:58Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > No, they changed it because people could use watchlist to detect super players logging on, and those players complained, period. No separate tool was necessary. The actual change was brought on because of how a select group of players was abusing the logserver to get notifications while not logged into eve online. This is fact. Feel free to do some research if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2294 "2018-10-11T06:20:42Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > The actual change was brought on because of how a select group of players was abusing the logserver to get notifications while not logged into eve online. This is false. Its a trivial matter to have an alt logged in 23/7 and receive the same notifications via Watchlist. Even a single Jita spam alt could monitor super player logins, regardless of how distant they are, as long as they had the characters name. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2295 "2018-10-11T06:24:33Z")
It is not false. It may be a trivial matter to have an alt logged in and receiving notifications via W/L, but keeping an alt logged in on your desktop will not give you those notifications on your phone to get alerts when afk, so you can use Xabber to send a message out to get scouts moving and locators running. Call that the voice of experience. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2296 "2018-10-11T06:24:45Z")
> [@Iowa\_Banshee](#): > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > Making war targets visible on the map > > Will this be free intel ? > > - or wiil you have to use a locator agent like everyone else - Maybe an extended function of a locator agent. > > Will it be just hisec ? > > - or do you intend low sec groups who live next to high sec to have a huge advantage vs hi-sec corp. > > Will the opposing force see it ? > > - So they will know when to hide - now that’s handy for care bears A couple of things first. Players need some way out of the warfare, hence the social corps. On top of this can one have spatially-limited and timezone-limited features. Maybe even weekend-limited warfare for the more casual players to bring some casual fun back. The biggest problem for young, small corporations is to get into the warfare in the first place. With all the learning new players need to do is this quite a steep and costly experience and I assume this may also be where it costs the most players for EVE. This needs to be addressed in some form. Now the idea of a war target filter for the map is meant to bring back the intel for those who are happy with corporate warfare and want their intel tools back so they can have more fun. Locator agents are old and imbalanced. They don’t need changing, but they’re no good for a couple of reasons. The intel these provide is only about a single player, yet this can be used for an entire fleet and so really caters strongly to the “1 versus many” warfare. Then one needs to have standings with NPC corporations to get access to them and the larger corps have more players and thus more likely better access to locators than smaller and the smallest corps. A map filter for war targets could be made available to corporations who declare their war to be mutual. Or it could have its very own option, which both sides must have enabled before the intel becomes available. At that point could it simply show all war targets anywhere, not only for high-sec but anywhere and maybe even as short as 5-minute intervals. How this is then used, to dodge, to harass, to charge straight into them or whatever is really for the players to decide. We don’t want to dictate how this has to be used. If players want to use it to dodge wars, then just let them as long as they don’t outright quit playing. As a bonus: A map filter for war targets could provide a reat-time strategy element for warfare, which can help to attract players of the RTS genre into EVE. We then know that players of online RTS games are very competitive players. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2297 "2018-10-11T06:29:05Z")
Sounds like we have you to thank for no more watchlist!! ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2298 "2018-10-11T06:42:38Z")
@Proteus_Onzo Here’s the reddit thread about it. Unfortunately the blog going into all the details isn’t up at the moment. > **[r/Eve - Automating Super Hunting](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3mekx5/automating_super_hunting/)** > > 159 votes and 100 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2299 "2018-10-11T06:48:46Z")
Revisionism on why Watchlist was removed dont matter. People will think what they want, and serves them best. Removal of watchlist hamstrung HS PvP, that everyone can agree on. Also, as relevant here, on the part of defenders whom can no longer track aggressors, and thus more likely to simply logoff, than avoid them while under wardec. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2300 "2018-10-11T07:09:50Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Success in PvP is built on a huge stack of failures. Success? In the context of this thread, the success is that those who suffer a war declaration never log back in. Where’s the PvP in that? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=112) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=114)