# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 119
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2403 "2018-10-11T12:36:08Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Explain what this quote means to you: > > In short, it’s fear mongering. It’s a politcal game instigated by larger alliances who want free routes into high-sec for making ISKs and not wanting to fight. This was issued to the CSM by CCP during the CCP Leadership presentation. > In the EVE Leadership meeting the CSM was presented with numbers… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2404 "2018-10-11T12:38:08Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > This was issued to the CSM by CCP during the CCP Leadership presentation. Are you just going to accept it (aka roll over) or are you trying to reason and find ways to address the problems in other and more meaningful ways? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2405 "2018-10-11T12:39:28Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Are you just going to accept it (aka roll over) or are you trying to reason and find ways to address the problems in other and more meaningful ways? The minutes literally say CCP presented these numbers with the explanation in the minutes. These are CCP figures and concerns presented to CSM inorder to discuss fixing this specific problem, not fake, political or otherwise compromised. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2406 "2018-10-11T12:40:54Z")
You’re talking to a wall, best ignore him since he’ll only repeat himself until the thread is locked ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2407 "2018-10-11T12:41:17Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > These are CCP figures and concerns presented to CSM inorder to discuss fixing the problem, not fake, political or otherwise compromised. Look, if they didn’t want us to fix this but have it their way then they wouldn’t even bother showing it to us. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2408 "2018-10-11T12:43:10Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > In short, it’s fear mongering. It’s a politcal game instigated by larger alliances who want free routes into high-sec for making ISKs and not wanting to fight. Are you trying to say CCP showed this data to CSM during Leadership meeting, with the reason stated in the minutes, is fear-mongerinf and politically instigated? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2409 "2018-10-11T12:47:27Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Are you trying to say CCP showed this data to CSM during Leadership meeting, with the reason stated in the minutes, is fear-mongerinf and politically instigated? No. I’m saying that whoever was asking for the data is now using it for their agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2410 "2018-10-11T12:52:51Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Are you trying to say CCP showed this data to CSM during Leadership meeting, with the reason stated in the minutes, is fear-mongerinf and politically instigated? > > No. I’m saying that whoever was asking for the data is now using it for their agenda. /facepalm… CCP said: “war declarations allow a small number of players to negatively affect a huge number of people, with low risk.” This describes PIRAT, with only 240 members, but with 160 declared wars at this moment negatively affecting a huge number of people, with low risk, and over 20k other wardecs in its history, completely. PIRAT has so many declared wardecs, it crashes even the Dotlan page on their wars. Even Dotlan literally cannot list them all. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2411 "2018-10-11T12:56:58Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > CCP said: > “war declarations allow a small number of players to negatively affect a huge number of people, with low risk.” I really don’t care who says this, but it is obviously flawed. We all know wardecs alone don’t do any harm. It’s the actual fight and ship loss, which is the negative here. Now we do know that players leave, because they dislike wardecs. But to think that those who don’t leave and create conflict should now have wardecs changed so they can no longer fight larger number of players than their own is just fully retarded. Do you get this? And when Dotlan crashes then that’s also not PIRAT’s fault. Dotlan needs to fix their crap. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2412 "2018-10-11T12:57:51Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > I really don’t care who says this, but it is obviously flawed. CCP said it when they presented the data to CSM for their advice as how to address that problem. That is literally stated in the minutes of the Summit. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2413 "2018-10-11T12:59:19Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > CCP said it … Then stop caring for it. They’re not Gods, they’re humans, too. It’s almost like “Mum said it …” and now you do anything. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2414 "2018-10-11T13:01:00Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > CCP said it … > > The stop caring for it. They’re not Gods, they’re humans, too. You can think CCP and CSM are wrong, but that doesnt mean you are right. This issue was raised by CCP ro CSM as a problem, and supported with data. What you think about that is not important. You even tried to call it “fear mongering” and a "political game, here: > [@Whitehound](#): > > In short, it’s fear mongering. It’s a politcal game instigated by larger alliances who want free routes into high-sec for making ISKs and not wanting to fight. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2415 "2018-10-11T13:02:29Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > If people can’t be arsed to defend themselves from literally about 5p active players, it’s not up to CCP to change things Pretty much how I started feeling straight after I saw “My friend quit the game due to war decs, he anchored 6 citadels, smacktalked and got his ■■■■ kicked in”. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2416 "2018-10-11T13:05:34Z")
The wardec costs system needs to be fixed. Or, player corps should be able to buy wardec immunity from CONCORD at the same cost it would cost an aggressor to wardec them from CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2417 "2018-10-11T13:06:34Z")
I have no problem with that. The risk you take when war deccing a small corp. And sometimes it’s the main goal of a contract. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2418 "2018-10-11T13:06:53Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > What you think about that is not important. Right back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2419 "2018-10-11T13:08:01Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Right back at you. You accused CCP and CSM of fear-mongering and political interests. What you have said is nothing like what I have. Inwant a solution to the stated problem. You just want to point fingers away from the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2420 "2018-10-11T13:09:08Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > What you have said is nothing like what I have. What you think about that is not important. - Proteus ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2421 "2018-10-11T13:10:58Z")
Never doubt space lawyers 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2422 "2018-10-11T13:17:31Z")
I hope CCP releases the data shown to CSM on this issue. I’m certain it will corroborate that its entities like PIRAT that are causing the problem, described as “war declarations allow a small number of players to negatively affect a huge number of people, with low risk.” [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=118) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=120)