# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 123
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2483 "2018-10-12T10:32:41Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Ive been trying to propose Corps can buy wardec immunity, at the same cost it costs to wardec them. > > > > So for you, it would cost 50mil a week, so that nobody can wardec you. > > Wardec Insurance. 😃 Wardec is often described as a bribe to CONCORD to not intervene. It makes sense that a Corp should also be able to bribe CONCORD for the same cost, to not be wardecced. ---
**Author:** ![Keiko\_O\_dina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keiko_o_dina/32/101076_2.png) [@Keiko\_O\_dina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keiko_O_dina)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2484 "2018-10-12T10:34:01Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Ive been trying to propose Corps can buy wardec immunity, at the same cost it costs to wardec them. > > > > > > So for you, it would cost 50mil a week, so that nobody can wardec you. > > > > Wardec Insurance. 😃 > > Wardec is often described as a bribe to CONCORD to not intervene. > > It makes sense that a Corp should also be able to bribe CONCORD for the same cost, to not be wardecced. Paying Concord protection money! ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2485 "2018-10-12T10:35:11Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > Paying Concord protection money! Would you pay 50mil a week to CONCORD, so that you cant be wardecced, your ships cant be attacked legally and your structures cant be legally destroyed? Think you can manage that, and do you think its a fair deal? Its 200mil a month. ---
**Author:** ![Keiko\_O\_dina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keiko_o_dina/32/101076_2.png) [@Keiko\_O\_dina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keiko_O_dina)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2486 "2018-10-12T10:38:06Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Would you pay 50mil a week to CONCORD, so that you cant be wardecced, your ships cant be attacked legally and your structures cant be legally destroyed? > > Think you can manage that, and do you think its a fair deal? > > Its 200mil a month. At this point it still feels steep, but once I get to the point where I’m deploying and maintaining structures, that starts becoming an option. I’d weigh up the cost of replacing structures, but also the cost in real money and ISK of not being able to operate freely, and I suspect the numbers will stack in favour of the protection money. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2487 "2018-10-12T10:40:12Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > At this point it still feels steep, but once I get to the point where I’m deploying and maintaining structures, that starts becoming an option. I’d weigh up the cost of replacing structures, but also the cost in real money and ISK of not being able to operate freely, and I suspect the numbers will stack in favour of the protection money. A sound assessment. But unfortunately not possible yet. Instead, you will have to deal with dozens, to hundreds or a thousand wardec members till or if CCP does this. Interesting, isnt it, that wardeccers can pay only 50mil, to destroy your structures which cost many times more. Astrahus is currently 840mil, and a Raitaru 500mil. ---
**Author:** ![Keiko\_O\_dina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keiko_o_dina/32/101076_2.png) [@Keiko\_O\_dina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keiko_O_dina)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2488 "2018-10-12T10:42:54Z")
Also, considering my own resources, I really have no chance to either defend myself, or retaliate. Ultimately, it is a game, and I play games to relax and have fun. If its not fun because I’m being forced into hiding in a hole indefinitely, then I’ll also find something else to do. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2489 "2018-10-12T10:45:04Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > If its not fun because I’m being forced into hiding in a hole indefinitely, then I’ll also find something else to do. If you place even a Raitaru, they will pay only 50mil to destroy your 500mil asset. ---
**Author:** ![Keiko\_O\_dina](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keiko_o_dina/32/101076_2.png) [@Keiko\_O\_dina](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keiko_O_dina)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2490 "2018-10-12T10:47:08Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > If you place even a Raitaru, they will pay only 50mil to destroy your 500mil asset. Yup, the fun seems a little one-sided in that instance. 😟 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2491 "2018-10-12T10:49:27Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > If you place even a Raitaru, they will pay only 50mil to destroy your 500mil asset. > > Yup, the fun seems a little one-sided in that instance. 😟 You wont have fun. The second you stick your head out of a dock, you will be targetted by superior numbers and more experienced PvP players, and your structure is a foregone loss. **But, if you can buy wardec immunity at the same rate, as I suggested, you will have a chance.** Now that I think of it, Id add that nobody can see if you are wardec immune as having paid for it. So if someone tries to wardec you, their wardec cost is paid and sunk, but you remain immune. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2492 "2018-10-12T11:13:16Z")
> [@Keiko\_O\_dina](#): > > Paying Concord protection money! Where do you think all the npc fees go? Lmao ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2493 "2018-10-12T11:14:29Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > Where do you think all the npc fees go? Paying CONCORD for a wardec is an NPC fee. Makes sense that it should be possible to pay that same NPC fee to be wardec immune. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2494 "2018-10-12T11:15:41Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > If you place even a Raitaru, they will pay only 50mil to destroy your 500mil asset. It’s minimum 100m if it has just the shield and structure timers, another 50 if there’s the armor timer. Yet more proof that you don’t play EVE Salvos. Stop misinforming genuinely interested people. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2495 "2018-10-12T11:17:18Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Makes sense that it should be possible to pay that same NPC fee to be wardec immune. Except everyone already does. Highsec would be burning if CONCORD wasn’t already getting paid to punish evildoers… Lmao ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2496 "2018-10-12T11:18:15Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > It’s minimum 100m if it has just the shield and structure timers, another 50 if there’s the armor timer. Raitarus sell currently at 500mil in market. Wardecs cost 50mil for one week, on a \<51 member Corp or Alliance. The opportunity cost of the aggressor is not relevant, and entirely subjective. > [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > Except everyone already does. ? Its not currently possible to buy wardec immunity from CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2497 "2018-10-12T11:21:12Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > It’s minimum 100m if it has just the shield and structure timers, another 50 if there’s the armor timer. Keep ignoring the facts Salvos > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Its not currently possible to buy wardec immunity from CONCORD. You start with it… talk about being knowingly ignorant lmao ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2498 "2018-10-12T11:23:51Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > You start with it… talk about being knowingly ignorant lmao You start in an NPC Corp. They cannot be wardecced, or wardec. How is that relevant to being able to buy wardec immunity for a Player Corp from CONCORD, at the same cost it is to a Player Corp to buy a wardec on it from CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2499 "2018-10-12T11:42:10Z")
I’ll point out again that if wardec immunity can be bought you may as well remove wars all together. The richest groups would be completely immune, as would rich groups from low/null/WH space. Buying immunity should be forgotten as an option. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2500 "2018-10-12T11:44:53Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > I’ll point out again that if wardec immunity can be bought you may as well remove wars all together. It can be used as a temporary, simple solution, till wardec mechanics are fixed more comprehensively. It is reasonable that if a Corp or Alliance can be wardecced for a certain cost based on member count in the current system, that they should also be able to buy wardec immunity for that same cost based on member count. CONCORD doesnt care who pays them, as long as they get paid. Mutual wardecs will not be affected. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2501 "2018-10-12T11:49:10Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > How is that relevant to being able to buy wardec immunity for a Player Corp from CONCORD, at the same cost it is to a Player Corp to buy a wardec on it from CONCORD. Concord, by existing, already prevents corps from deccing eachother unless a fee is paid (war fees) So every corp is already immune to wars until someone decider to make CONCORD look the other way… ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2502 "2018-10-12T11:51:06Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > It is reasonable that if a Corp or Alliance can be wardecced for a certain cost based on member count in the current system No, it really isn’t reasonable. Our WH corp could then immediately form a small corp to be immune from wardecs for hauling (more simple in some ways than being in NPC corps). Every large group would do the same. Then small corps would catch on and split down to single man corps. Wars then disappear. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=122) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=124)