# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 128
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2583 "2018-10-12T16:38:50Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > For a Player Corp with \<51 members, that would be 50mil per week, per the current formula. > Same as the cost to wardec that Player Corp This is exactly what I said, but it’s effectively a CONCORD protection racket. ‘200 mil and we’ll keep you safe’. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I know what you guys are doing. Just twisting, spamming and acting like you dont see the point. Nobody is twisting anything, just pointing out the obvious faults in your oft spammed idea. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > The current wardec cost system is ridiculous. > My suggestion to fix it, is not. The current system is indeed ridiculous, but this doesn’t make your immunity idea any less unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2584 "2018-10-12T16:42:30Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > This is exactly what I said, but it’s effectively a CONCORD protection racket. ‘200 mil and we’ll keep you safe’. So what. Wardecs are already a racket system. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Nobody is twisting anything, just pointing out the obvious faults in your oft spammed idea. Please. Its obvious to any intelligent observer. There comes a point where its clear there are dishonest posters that will ignore what was already addressed. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > The current system is indeed ridiculous, but this doesn’t make your immunity idea any less unpleasant. If it costs 50 mil to wardec a Player Corp, as paid to CONCORD, then its fair that Player Corp can pay 50mil to get immunity from wardec, to CONCORD. If 50mil is enough for a wardec via CONCORD, then it should also be enough to not be wardecced, via CONCORD. CONCORD sinks 50mil, either way. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2585 "2018-10-12T16:47:34Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I know what you guys are doing. Just twisting, spamming and acting like you dont see the point. No, what we’re doing is trying to make _you_ see a point you clearly don’t comprehend. Money spent to avoid PvP is money spent on PvP. It is time and effort being spent to protect against hostile players. A flu shot is still healthcare, right? You do understand that preventative measures _are_ measures taken in the same area of focus as the very thing you’re trying to prevent, right? We do these things in the real world because we _have_ to. We don’t _have_ to in EVE. We can just go elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2586 "2018-10-12T16:51:11Z")
@Brisc_Rubal and @Steve_Ronuken What do you think about a Player Corp being able to pay the same cost in isk to CONCORD to be wardec immune, as it costs another Player Corp in isk paid to CONCORD to wardec it? So as is now, a \<51 member Player Corp would pay 50mil a week to CONCORD for wardec immunity, which is identical to the 50mil any other Player Corp would pay to CONCORD to wardec them. Would this not allow PvP averse Player Corps to do PvE, as they want, to pay isk so they dont have to deal with wardecs, at a fair rate? At the current PLEX rate, a single player in a Player Corp could buy 31 weeks (7.8months) of wardec immunity, at roughly 16 PLEX value per week, from buying 500 PLEX from CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2587 "2018-10-12T16:51:43Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > There comes a point where its clear their are dishonest posters that will ignore what was already addressed. And to most you are talking about yourself. How does war immunity payments help make a healthy and functioning war system? One where both sides have clear objectives to allow a win? One that allows an area in space where both sides can still function? A system that introduces newer players to the harsh reality of EvE play, but without driving them out of game? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2588 "2018-10-12T17:00:09Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > And to most you are talking about yourself. I’m done with your games. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > How does war immunity payments help make a healthy and functioning war system? One where both sides have clear objectives to allow a win? One that allows an area in space where both sides can still function? A system that introduces newer players to the harsh reality of EvE play, but without driving them out of game? Answered these earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2589 "2018-10-12T17:05:35Z")
Being able to buy immunity does not address any of those points. You want to be able to pay to sidestep a war. This clearly favours those with funds and does nothing to improve the war system. What next, paying for immunity from ganks? Break down my questions and answer them in turn. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2590 "2018-10-12T17:07:02Z")
That’s just the isks that’s being paid to CCP. Now calculate how much isks has been destroyed by wars. The last one is why we get paid by our clients. 😋 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2591 "2018-10-12T17:08:11Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > What next, paying for immunity from ganks? You overplayed your hand, and revealed yourself with this. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Break down my questions and answer them in turn. Already been done before. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2592 "2018-10-12T17:08:26Z")
I’m curious to know your reaction to the idea of people buying immunity for 50 mil a week? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2593 "2018-10-12T17:11:12Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > I’m curious to know your reaction to the idea of people buying immunity for 50 mil a week? Why not? Its identical to the cost of wardeccing that Player Corp, as paid to CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2594 "2018-10-12T17:11:55Z")
Terrible idea. Even 50M/day is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2595 "2018-10-12T17:13:48Z")
> [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > Terrible idea. Even 50M/day is stupid. What do you think about it costing 50mil for a +2000 member Player Corp to wardec a 10 man Player Corp, whereas it costs that 10 man Player Corp 500mil to wardec the +2000 member Player Corp? ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2596 "2018-10-12T17:14:10Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I know what I’m doing. Just twisting, spamming and acting like I dont see the point. Ftfy Salvos That’s your M.O. lol ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2597 "2018-10-12T17:14:56Z")
As you can guess, I expected this. With this immunity idea CCP may as well just remove wars altogether and add a flat 50 mil per week to corp office rent. It would functionaly be no different. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2598 "2018-10-12T17:15:03Z")
For Marmites it would be good. For Eve it would be bad. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2599 "2018-10-12T17:16:53Z")
Just going to say this But why pay 50m/ week to npc corps to not get decced when you can pay mercs not to dec you? 😂 Win/win for both sides ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2600 "2018-10-12T17:17:09Z")
Now imagine a HS with no wars. What do you think will happen to the market and the number of structures for example? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2601 "2018-10-12T17:17:55Z")
And that’s exactly what the smart ones do. Protection money mafia style. Just like renting space in 00. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2602 "2018-10-12T17:18:53Z")
It’s blindingly obvious, but apparently this is twisting things. Wars can’t even affect me, and I can still see how bad an idea this is. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=127) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=129)