# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2603 "2018-10-12T17:26:57Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > @Brisc_Rubal and @Steve_Ronuken > > What do you think about a Player Corp being able to pay the same cost in isk to CONCORD to be wardec immune, as it costs another Player Corp in isk paid to CONCORD to wardec it? Generally speaking I think it’s an interesting concept, but I think it still likely favors the war dec crowd more than the defenders - these guys are likely to be better financed than their targets. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2604 "2018-10-12T17:27:01Z")
> [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > Now imagine a HS with no wars. Wars will still exist. > [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > What do you think will happen to the market and the number of structures for example? The markets will so just fine. Instead of Player Corps leaving EVE due to wardecs, they will pay isk to CONCORD not to be wardecced, thus staying ingame and contributing materials to market and sinking isk equivalent to a waredec against them. As to structures, it doesnt matter how many there are in HS. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2605 "2018-10-12T17:29:28Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Generally speaking I think it’s an interesting concept, but I think it still likely favors the war dec crowd more than the defenders - these guys are likely to be better financed than their targets. They cant leverage that wealth if the potential targets pay the same in isk for wardec immunity to CONCORD. They wouldnt have to pay against every single wardec, just pay for wardec immunity. It doesnt matter how much finance the wardeccer has, if the target pays the same cost per week. For a \<51 member Player Corp, thats only 50mil per week. That is easily earned even with casual PvE. Its 4 L4s at max, some hours of Ice mining, or a single good DED drop in HS can pay that for a month. 50 mil per week is peanuts, even if its only a 1 man Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2606 "2018-10-12T17:29:31Z")
If people wanted to pay not to get decced, don’t you think they’d already be doing so? Lmao That’s something that won’t change ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2607 "2018-10-12T17:57:07Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > If people wanted to pay not to get decced, don’t you think they’d already be doing so? Lmao This makes no sense. How can you now pay not to be wardecced? You cant. Thats why I suggested for it to be possible by paying CONCORD the same cost as anwardec against you, to prevent wardecs. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2608 "2018-10-12T18:01:08Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > How can you now pay not to be wardecced? You directly pay the merc as mentioned many times above > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > This makes no sense. Yeah, you indeed make no sense whatsoever It’s not rocket science 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2609 "2018-10-12T18:02:54Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > How can you now pay not to be wardecced? You pay the wardec group protection, they have diplomatic ties with the others at a guess. Standard protection racket. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2610 "2018-10-12T18:02:58Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > You directly pay the merc as mentioned many times above That mesns you have already been wardecced. You didnt pay to prevent it, you pay to end it, and that obviously will cost more than the cost of the wardec to them. > [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > Yeah, you indeed make no sense whatsoever /facepalm… ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2611 "2018-10-12T18:05:12Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > How can you now pay not to be wardecced? > > You pay the wardec group protection, they have diplomatic ties with the others at a guess. Standard protection racket. And this helps player retention due to wardecs, as has been stated a severe problem? Hell no. My suggestion is better. Pay CONCORD the same rate as it would cost to wardec you, and receive wardec immunity. CONCORD doesnt care. They get paid either way. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2612 "2018-10-12T18:08:00Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > That mesns you have already been wardecced. It doesn’t If you’ve been wardecced it always costs a lot more than it would have if you had paid beforehand. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > /facepalm Back at you Salvos. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2613 "2018-10-12T18:10:23Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > My suggestion is better. The point was you can already pay off the wardec groups now. Your idea is not better, if it was introduced then the wardec groups would simply undercut by whatever to get the money. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2614 "2018-10-12T18:10:29Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > It doesn’t It does. Nobody is wardecced, until they are wardecced… > [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > If you’ve been wardecced it always costs a lot more than it would have if you had paid beforehand. Would cost a lot less to just pay CONCORD for immunity, at the same rate the wardeccer has to pay to wardec you. You still dont get it. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2615 "2018-10-12T18:11:59Z")
Hey @Tora_Bushido, @Natural_CloneKiller You two being very well versed in wars, can you confirm that you can currently get paid to not dec certain groups? Tia 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2616 "2018-10-12T18:12:44Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > The point was you can already pay off the wardec groups now. No, you cant. You can pay, and they wardec you anyways, or on alt corps. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Your idea is not better, if it was introduced then the wardec groups would simply undercut by whatever to get the money. Its immeasurably better and fixes the problem stated in the CSM minutes as recognized by CSM and shown by CCP to them. If a Player Corp can pay for immunity to CONCORD, they can continue their PvE, which is what they want to do, and pay from it, to keep the wardec immunity going. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2617 "2018-10-12T18:18:20Z")
Anyone who wants to have a constructive conversation, please ignore @Proteus_Onzo aka Salvos. It’s obvious he’s only here to throw his lack of knowledge all over 🙂 @CCP_Guard is there a possibility to publicly release the data shown to the CSM about player activity during/after wars? ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2618 "2018-10-12T18:19:05Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > If a Player Corp can pay for immunity to CONCORD, they can continue their PvE And you can’t see that this then becomes the default first step for anyone opening a corp. This doesn’t fix the war system, it effectively removes it. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2619 "2018-10-12T18:20:22Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > If a Player Corp can pay for immunity to CONCORD, they can continue their PvE > > And you can’t see that this then becomes the default first step for anyone opening a corp. This doesn’t fix the war system, it effectively removes it. Doesnt remove the wardec system at all. It will still exist, but if Player Corps pay CONCORD, they can opt out of being wardecced. Nobody is forcing a Player Corp to pay CONCORD for wardec immunity, per week, at curremt rates of wardec cost. Nobody is forcing Player Corps to pay for wardecs via CONCORD on other Player Corps either. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2620 "2018-10-12T18:23:26Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > it. > > Doesnt remove the wardec system at all. > > It will still exist, but if Player Corps pay CONCORD, they can opt out of being wardecced And which corps do you actually believe won’t just pay this? Meanwhile we’ll ignore that the lower sec groups will just create small war immune corps for hauling. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2621 "2018-10-12T18:26:31Z")
The last few years we often had people who pay us a small amount to not get war decced. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/2622 "2018-10-12T18:26:46Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > And which corps do you actually believe won’t just pay this? How should I know? Its not up to me. Its up to them. Some wont care about being wardecced, some will. This is about them having a choice, either way, and paying for it, just like the wardeccer. > [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > Meanwhile we’ll ignore that the lower sec groups will just create small war immune corps for hauling. Why would they pay for wardec immunity, when they can haul on NPC Corp alts, non-wardecced alts, or contracts covered by collateral? You are so bad at this. Please use your brain. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=128) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=130)