# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/281 "2018-10-03T13:57:21Z")
> [@nomadd79](#): > > Avoidable by not logging in. What other options does a freighter pilot have appart from logging off for a week and hoping the war isn’t extended? Deep space transport. And guess what, your a prime example of why people log off for a week and don’t play because you couldn’t make that suggestion. > [@nomadd79](#): > > Again, I’m genuinely curious, if you were a corp CEO how would you “prepare” your members for a war dec? Move to remote high sec island, use the new trade citadels outside of main hubs for items, teach them all the tricks to avoid being caught, advise them pay attention. Not being funny, to actively hunt a corporation requires so much work now its not worth it unless you get given the intel in advance. If you think i’ll add a 20 man corporation to my address book, send out locates to then travel hundreds of jumps to just see if their even online then your wrong. If it isn’t between Jita, Amarr, Hek or my personal hotspots then I won’t bother going there and neither will the majority of the other mercs. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I think that this is the issue, though CCP has to be careful in terms of working out just what that player base is. But people like me have known that this was the case for a long time. I want to know with these statistics if it just looks overall at war dec corporations, as the common solution for players is to roll into another corp which would explain a very large inactivity figure. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/282 "2018-10-03T14:02:29Z")
> [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > Did you discuss a CSM term limit? Steve is the one who brought it up. It’s flat out written in the last session. ---
**Author:** ![MIssy\_Aggrevation](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/missy_aggrevation/32/99384_2.png) [@MIssy\_Aggrevation](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MIssy_Aggrevation)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/283 "2018-10-03T14:02:52Z")
> [@Cletus\_Graeme](#): > > Presumably war dec costs should rise with each dec? > > At the very minimum: > 1st Dec - 1x cost, 2nd wardec - 2x cost, 3rd wardec - 3x cost, 4th wardec - 4x cost etc. > > If necessary, the costs could increase more rapidly: > 1st Dec - 1x cost, 2nd wardec - 2x cost, 3rd wardec - 4x cost, 4th wardec - 8x cost etc. This, is genius. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/284 "2018-10-03T14:04:01Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > It is Salvos, what did you expect? He is always upset. Damn, does he have any accounts with killboards that don’t look like my cat was sleeping on the keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/285 "2018-10-03T14:06:58Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Corret me if I’m wrong in this maddness but if you were a developer and have ingame mechanis that is unhealthy and is droping players rather than encourage them to play wouldn’t you change it asap. I don’t even mention revenue drops because it is obvious. Maybe I didn’t see that behind minutes and CCP is so swamped with citadels that have no time to do it. Fixing war decs was the #1 issue the CSM brought up this time. It’s been brought up in many past CSMs, but this was our top priority and we told them so. It was the first thing we brought up with the strategy team when we met with them. I am confident we will get a solution while I’m still on the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/286 "2018-10-03T14:07:27Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > > > Great. > > > > CSM and CCP exchanging recipes at Summit. > > > > Totally worth it. > > You seem upset. You seem complacent, politically bought and ineffective. You where elected as a joke, and controlled opposition. ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/287 "2018-10-03T14:08:25Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > > > Did you discuss a CSM term limit? > > Steve is the one who brought it up. It’s flat out written in the last session. What section is it in? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/288 "2018-10-03T14:08:40Z")
> [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > You seem complacent, politically bought and ineffective. > > You where elected as a joke, and controlled opposition. Actually, given how many things I campaigned on that are suddenly being worked on, I think most objective people would look at what we’ve seen so far and say I’ve been one of the more effective CSM members. Then again, you don’t have a passport, so nobody cares what you think. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/289 "2018-10-03T14:09:49Z")
> [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > What section is it in? Literally on the last page, in the summit wrap up section: “Steve Ronuken asks about term limits. The CSM is mostly opposed to it due to the benefits of not limiting the people others want to vote for, the continuity of bringing up major issues each summit. CCP Guard is not a fan of arbitrary term limits and overall wants the players to choose” ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/290 "2018-10-03T14:10:11Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > nobody cares what you think Who do you think cares what you think? I’m a potential voter and part of the playerbase. You SHOULD care what I think, correct? ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/291 "2018-10-03T14:10:45Z")
Question: What’s the point in continuing to argue about a conspiracy theory in this thread? Please get out of here, that’s not what this thread is for. ---
**Author:** ![Norian\_Rever](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/norian_rever/32/99362_2.png) [@Norian\_Rever](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Norian_Rever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/292 "2018-10-03T14:11:14Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > “Steve Ronuken asks about term limits. The CSM is mostly opposed to it due to the benefits > of not limiting the people others want to vote for, the continuity of bringing up major issues > each summit. CCP Guard is not a fan of arbitrary term limits and overall wants the players to > choose” Lol. Well, there we see what the CSM thinks about having itself re-elected and perpetuating their influence. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/293 "2018-10-03T14:11:46Z")
Let’s war dec 5 nulsec alliances : 500m, 1000m, 1500m, 2000m, 2500m = 7,5B per week to war dec 5 alliances If you think that is a good idea, you really don’t get it. 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/294 "2018-10-03T14:13:48Z")
> [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > Let’s war dec 5 nulsec alliances : > > 500m, 1000m, 1500m, 2000m, 2500m = 7,5B per week to war dec 5 alliances > > If you think that is a good idea, you really don’t get it. 🤦‍♂️ Will probably be circumvented by altcorps. I think Steve had a solid approach with his Propaganda-Structure? I think Propaganda-Hub would be a nice name for it. If you have to place a structure in each defenders constellation and if you have to refuel that every so often (+ defending it ofc), then I don’t think even you would care to go through all that effort just to have that one more kill on Jita 4-4 undock. Make it a semi-expensive structure on top of that and you might have a solid ISK sink too. ---
**Author:** ![MIssy\_Aggrevation](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/missy_aggrevation/32/99384_2.png) [@MIssy\_Aggrevation](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MIssy_Aggrevation)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/295 "2018-10-03T14:14:33Z")
> [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > If you think that is a good idea, you really don’t get it. 🤦‍♂️ The concept is genius, not the specific numbers. The point is, a sliding scale where it’s cheap for a small number of wardecs, growing to unaffordable for 100. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/296 "2018-10-03T14:21:35Z")
> [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > Who do you think cares what you think? > > I’m a potential voter and part of the playerbase. > You SHOULD care what I think, correct? I gave up caring about what you think when you questioned my running skills, Salvos. ---
**Author:** ![nomadd79](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomadd79/32/318737_2.png) [@nomadd79](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nomadd79)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/297 "2018-10-03T14:22:49Z")
> [@gnshadowninja](#): > > > Avoidable by not logging in. What other options does a freighter pilot have appart from logging off for a week and hoping the war isn’t extended? > > Deep space transport. > > And guess what, your a prime example of why people log off for a week and don’t play because you couldn’t make that suggestion. Really? So lets see 1 Freighter load is, lets say around 400k m3 without expanders. A max skill DST is what, 62.5k. So in order to transport the same volume the pilot would have to travel 7 times back and forth in a DST past the fleet that would have killed his freighter. This is your solution?? **Are you serious???** > [@gnshadowninja](#): > > Move to **_remote_** high sec island, use the new trade citadels outside of main hubs for items 😂 Why would anyone do that?? They are remote for a reason! Better to just wait out the war TBH. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/298 "2018-10-03T14:26:17Z")
> [@nomadd79](#): > > Why would anyone do that?? They are remote for a reason! Better to just wait out the war TBH. that’s correct. People rather stay off than do that. Evidence can be found in the minutes. Infact, ALL the other options that you do have are so unappealing that, appearantly, the vast majority of decced players go offline and STAY offline for extended periods. There is no reasonable way to defend the current system anymore. Everyone but the deccers themselves agree on that… TLDR is: It’s a done deal. Resistance is futile. It’s just the question of details. The best you can do is to help improve the next generation of that system so it doesn’t harm the game as much as the current one does. I mean, LOOK at the reaction the facts have caused. CSM calling for an immediate deactivation of wardecs. IMMEDIATE removal of something is usually only ever done for game breaking bugs on a feature. That should tell you a little something… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![nomadd79](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomadd79/32/318737_2.png) [@nomadd79](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nomadd79)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/299 "2018-10-03T14:27:02Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Fixing war decs was the #1 issue the CSM brought up this time … I am confident we will get a solution while I’m still on the CSM. And I for one am looking forward to it. Hear that @Tora_Bushido? Change is coming so you will have to: > [@Tora\_Bushido](#): > > adapt or die! ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/300 "2018-10-03T14:32:02Z")
> [@nomadd79](#): > > Really? So lets see 1 Freighter load is, lets say around 400k m3 without expanders. A max skill DST is what, 62.5k. So in order to transport the same volume the pilot would have to travel 7 times back and forth in a DST past the fleet that would have killed his freighter. This is your solution?? **Are you serious???** Very serious, considering no one carries a full load in freighters through high sec due to ganking I think your over exaggerating. > [@nomadd79](#): > > Why would anyone do that?? They are remote for a reason! Better to just wait out the war TBH. Why not? You can mine & mission to your hearts content and it doesn’t have to be remote just off the main pipes or are we really getting to the key problem here, that you want to be immune and freely travel high sec without anyone blowing you up? > [@Mingja](#): > > There is no reasonable way to defend the current system anymore. Everyone but the deccers themselves agree on that… > > TLDR is: It’s a done deal. Resistance is futile. It’s just the question of details. The best you can do is to help improve the next generation of that system so it doesn’t harm the game as much as the current one does. Unfortunately I don’t quite see how its a done deal, discussion are there to discuss things, such as in which direction to go from here. No one is defending the system currently in place, just that any ideas submitted are far from better. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=16)