# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 158
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3186 "2018-10-17T04:29:33Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > But if you had to have say 5-10 victories before you were allowed to graduate out from the creche, then you would be forced to stay long enough to either teach others through example how to pilot/fit ships or learn from the better pilots how to fit/pilot ships. Now you’re forcing me to get another laptop, make a 2nd alpha account, kill it 5 times, so I can keep playing with the first one. What a PITA. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3187 "2018-10-17T04:31:31Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > might not stick with the game even _that_ long. Yeah, pity the poor person who’s on a satellite connection out in the mountains who’s lag means they always shoot after the other guy’s gotten off 3-5 cycles. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3188 "2018-10-17T04:34:21Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Oh, there’s regularly 40+ on a single moon frack. But here’s the thing: No matter what, as long as the Rorqual has enough tank to be saved, a free high slot for a cyno, and mines more than a hulk? One active industrial core per anomaly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3189 "2018-10-17T04:39:55Z")
So the other rorqs can receive remote reps, still have 100x the tank of a hulk, more than 30x the ore hold capacity of the hulk, and oh yeah… _still mines as much as the hulk_. Guess what we’d still be using. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3190 "2018-10-17T04:58:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > … _still mines as much as the hulk_ . As opposed to 3-4 times as much as a hulk with the core on? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3191 "2018-10-17T05:18:17Z")
Sigh… Its clear some people just want their own interests, and dont care if EVE burns to the ground around them as long as they get their way. No surprise. Its been happening for years. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3192 "2018-10-17T05:20:44Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Its clear some people just want their own interests, and dont care if EVE burns to the ground around them as long as they get their way. I’m still interested in your answers to those questions: > [@Arrendis](#): > > > How is this gained by restricting Social Corps to HS, but not gained if they’re _not_ restricted to HS? > > and > > > What benefit is _gained_ by restricting gankers from doing everything they can do in an undeccable NPC corp, in a social corp? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3193 "2018-10-17T05:22:24Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > As opposed to 3-4 times as much as a hulk with the core on? 5x, in fact. But yes, we’d still use them, and 1 per anom wouldn’t slow down the moon mining, which is where the real money is. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3194 "2018-10-17T05:28:09Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I’m still interested in your answers to thsee questions: They where answered. You and your buddies have managed to bury them beneath hundreds of posts, misrepresentations, fallacies and your own agenda. That you didnt like the answers, or you pretend to ignore them, or try to reformat your questions changing it around and re-asking, doesnt change that. You people have been doing this for years, and though its dishonest, it clearly works as you always get your way and drown out any dissenting voices. Everyone knows why you do it, and how. Its like the Titanic sinking, and you lie, cheat, bribe and strong-arm that only the privileged and elite get access to the lifeboats. ie: you and your buddies. EVE continues on a dying,ndownward spiralling trajectory, but thats fine by you, as long as you get to keep your head above water standing on the shoulders of the rest drowning beneath you. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3195 "2018-10-17T05:34:35Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > They where answered. > > You and your buddies have managed to bury them beneath hundreds of posts, misrepresentations, fallacies and your own agenda. > > That you didnt like the answers, or you pretend to ignore them, or try to reformat your questions changing it around and re-asking, doesnt change that. Then re-link them. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3196 "2018-10-17T05:38:01Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Then re-link them. How about you get your numerous Goon buddies on the CSM to come here and answer them for us all, instead of you playing press secretary and propagandist for their cabinet, while they remain silent. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3197 "2018-10-17T05:41:19Z")
Because I asked _you_, and you claim you’ve answered them. I’m going through all of your replies since [I first posed them](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3036) right now. So let’s look! Is it [this](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3037) one? Hmmm… nope, just saying ‘the agenda is real’, which doesn’t tell me anything about any benefits that would be gained. [Next](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3039)? That’s just ‘send my love to Miniluv’, so that’s not it. [Third](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3041) one? You’re telling me what I want, which any look at my posting history and publication history shows is wrong… still no benefits to limiting the social corps, though! [Fourth](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3044)? You’ve only replied 8 times since I first asked, after all… Hmmm… nope. Just complaining about how I’ll get exactly what I want implemented, despite the fact that I don’t seem to have done that over the last two years, or we wouldn’t _have_ this issue now… Lucky Number [Five](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3067)?!? Nope. Talking about the NPE and trying to evade the questions. [Six](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3191)! Six responses! Ah ah ah… ⛈ Zero answers though. Just more attempts to make out like I’ve got some weird agenda only _ **YOU** _ know. [Seven](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3194)? Getting kinda slim here… Nope. Just your insistence that they’d been answered. Last one… Number [eight](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3196)! Nope, that’s just you calling me the CSM’s press secretary. So… no, it doesn’t look like you _did_ answer them. I’m gonna keep asking. I _did_ warn you… > [@Arrendis](#): > > These two questions aren’t complicated, and they aren’t unreasonable. I’m not even asking for you to explain your answers, though that would be nice. But I _am_ going to continue to ask them. And every time you run away from answering two simple, reasonable questions, you’re going to embarass yourself, and you know it. So just answer them. Save yourself the annoyance and embarassment. Deny me the perverse joy of keeping on you with them. > > Answer the questions. It’s just easier. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3198 "2018-10-17T06:15:05Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > You seem to have missed the bit where this kind of attitude contributing to poor player retention? I was referring to the war deckers in having to defend a propaganda structure in the main TZ of the defender in the war dec. If they cannot defend that against the noobs they normally war dec then they cannot be very good can they? Do keep up! This is a PvP game, however hisec is a bit unbalanced at the moment in terms of the war deckers imo and the propaganda structure gives it something for the defender to aim for. I am beginning to suspect that you are Dom? But you mentioned flying caps so can’t be… ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3199 "2018-10-17T06:38:23Z")
And now on a collateral topic… I find interesting how INN (the Goons’ media outlet) hasn’t said a word on the CSM meeting in general (but for a piece on NPE) and very specifically hasn’t talked about wardecs becoming a hot issue. What could this mean? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3200 "2018-10-17T06:45:29Z")
Oh, I can tell you that. First, we already published a [piece](https://imperium.news/csm-13-dev-blog-response/) from the CSM about, more or less, the stuff that actually came out of the summit, before the minutes were posted. Second, it means the writer who snagged the CSM Minutes story is actually pretty new to EVE. He probably didn’t realize what a big deal the wardec issue is, and unfortunately, he’s not one of my team, so I didn’t go over the piece to see if anything was missing, one of the other editors did. Gray wrote from the perspective of a new player—which is the only perspective he can write from, cuz it’s the one he’s got. That’s what it means. Edit: Third, if you want a third ‘what does this mean?’ it means that the member of our staff who’s been focusing on the wardec issue (hi, that’d be me) has been a little busy and primarily focusing on _here_, rather than re-writing the same thing I wrote two years ago (and linked upthread) about player retention. I could probably take a bunch of the ideas from here, summarize them, and put out a piece this week, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3201 "2018-10-17T06:47:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Because I asked _you_, and you claim you’ve answered them. I’m going through all of your replies since [I first posed them](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3036) right now. You are not the first to ask me, and I explained and answered them before and in context I know what you are trying to do. Trying to force me onto defensive, whilst ignoring posts in between, so I waste time digging up posts or re-explaining, rather than you responding. Then you and your buddies troll it, again, with 1 quasi-reasonable poster, 2-3 people picking quotes out of it, and a couple “lol-posting” in response. Then we go through the whole circus again in an attempt to wear out, aggravate me, and bury my posts, again. We both know, nothing I respond wil change that. Im not playing your games anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3202 "2018-10-17T06:48:59Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You are not the first to ask me, and I explained and answered them before and in context I am the first to ask you my questions. Nobody else did, because they are mine. I’m not trying to force you onto the defensive, you’ve been _there_ for days. I’m trying to get you to **answer the questions**. Nothing more, nothing less. And if I wanted to _bury_ your posts, why would I keep asking you to link them again if they exist? That doesn’t make any damned sense. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3203 "2018-10-17T06:50:46Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I am the first to ask you my questions. The answers are already in my previous posts. Im not playing your game, as I described above. > [@Arrendis](#): > > And if I wanted to _bury_ your posts, why would I keep asking you to link them again if they exist? That doesn’t make any damned sense > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Trying to force me onto defensive, whilst ignoring posts in between, so I waste time digging up posts or re-explaining, rather than you responding. > > Then you and your buddies troll it, again, with 1 quasi-reasonable poster, 2-3 people picking quotes out of it, and a couple “lol-posting” in response. > > Then we go through the whole circus again in an attempt to wear out, aggravate me, and bury my posts, again. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3204 "2018-10-17T06:53:35Z")
Then be prepared to keep getting asked those questions: > [@Arrendis](#): > > How is this gained by restricting Social Corps to HS, but not gained if they’re _not_ restricted to HS? > [@Arrendis](#): > > What benefit is _gained_ by restricting gankers from doing everything they can do in an undeccable NPC corp, in a social corp? ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3205 "2018-10-17T06:54:49Z")
Ah, that’s fine to know… _Hush my darling, don’t fear my darling, the lion sleeps tonight…_ …he swears. 😉 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=157) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=159)