# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Stragak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stragak/32/132931_2.png) [@Stragak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stragak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/321 "2018-10-03T16:05:38Z")
> [@Zar\_Myx](#): > > If you want to wardec a corp the cost goes up drastically if you want a universe wide wardec vs a wardec in one lone system. After all you only bribing the locals cops vs basically buying concord. This is amazing make the system the wardec’d party? That sounds intriguing. All the Joe’s in the system attacking the aggressor. Though like you said make routes more expensive vs dead-ends. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/322 "2018-10-03T16:05:39Z")
Then we merge all highsec war dec alliances to one BIG one. Imagine how much isks they have together. 😆 I suggest we call the new alliance “The United Middle Finger” TUMF! ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/323 "2018-10-03T16:06:23Z")
@Brisc_Rubal @CCP_Larrikin With regards to the statistics of corporations that had been at war and activity, was this made to include that most members leave that corporation once the war had gone in and reformed another? For example, many times ive put in wars against 50 man entities for them to leave and join another corporation then do it again once that got decced as well. Your stats would show 2 corporations with -100 player activity. > [@Zar\_Myx](#): > > In regards to war dec, I still think there should be an additional spatial cost/factor. If you want to wardec a corp the cost goes up drastically if you want a universe wide wardec vs a wardec in one lone system. After all you only bribing the locals cops vs basically buying concord. > > Could also be cost adjustments depending on the systems included. Uedama might have a cost multiplier of 10 over some low traffic backwater system. And starter systems might be disabled altogether? > > And the UI would be modified to aid newer players (and perhaps drunk vets) to make it obvious if you are in a wardec’d system. Perhaps even put in optional jump warning similar to enter null/low. > > I think these items would help decrease wide spread grief based wardec’s and provide players with options. And spatial based wardecs would more than likely handle more structure based wardec’s. See something you don’t like in that one system and want it removed, Wardec the corp in that one system for reasonable cost. Increasing costs will have no effect, been suggested to the moon and back for 3 years straight. If it was that easy it would of been done already. ---
**Author:** ![Kuklo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuklo/32/162907_2.png) [@Kuklo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuklo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/324 "2018-10-03T16:08:51Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Fixing war decs was the #1 issue the CSM brought up this time. It’s been brought up in many past CSMs, but this was our top priority and we told them so. It was the first thing we brought up with the strategy team when we met with them. > > I am confident we will get a solution while I’m still on the CSM. I`m really interested how null-sec dudes gonna improve high-sec stuff if they know nothing about the subject. Lol ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/325 "2018-10-03T16:09:13Z")
T3C focus group was a failure? Since when? I thought CCP was happy about it, whole balance went rather smooth. Anyway I’m still against NS CSM deciding or advising how to change wardecc system. It’s all cluster and especially HS issue. I still remember the RW fiasco. You are disconneted from HS issiues. ---
**Author:** ![Kuklo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuklo/32/162907_2.png) [@Kuklo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuklo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/326 "2018-10-03T16:10:12Z")
The Pirat Collective? ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/327 "2018-10-03T16:10:32Z")
Sounds good to me too. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Stragak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stragak/32/132931_2.png) [@Stragak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stragak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/328 "2018-10-03T16:12:29Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > T3C focus group was a failure? Since when? I thought CCP was happy about it, whole balance went rather smooth. I can echo that sentiment the T3Cs overall turned out well. Though I still miss my Proteus and think the Loki is _a little to OP vs others_ I think it was a positive and only tweaking is needed. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/329 "2018-10-03T16:13:36Z")
Ok, It’s nice to see the google ID’s of all people reading that document. Since they are all eve related… that’s quite a link for a CSM member. How is the fight against doxing going? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/330 "2018-10-03T16:15:16Z")
> [@Kuklo](#): > > I`m really interested how null-sec dudes gonna improve high-sec stuff if they know nothing about the subject. Lol I spent 10 years in high sec. I run level 4s in my spare time. ---
**Author:** ![Zar\_Myx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zar_myx/32/75333_2.png) [@Zar\_Myx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zar_Myx)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/331 "2018-10-03T16:16:47Z")
This just provides options, you can even disable universe wide wardecs, and limit wardecs to a region. Having a spatial component just allows for much more granularity. And even the richest organizations would think about a 10 billions dollar per week per region. Not saying that is the cost, but it allows for it on a much more granular scale. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/332 "2018-10-03T16:17:07Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > T3C focus group was a failure? Since when? I thought CCP was happy about it, whole balance went rather smooth. > > Anyway I’m still against NS CSM deciding or advising how to change wardecc system. It’s all cluster and especially HS issue. I still remember the RW fiasco. You are disconneted from HS issiues. Considering that everybody only uses Lokis now, I think it’s unlikely that they’re happy with it. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/333 "2018-10-03T16:18:55Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Considering that everybody only uses Lokis now, I think it’s unlikely that they’re happy with it. Question : Why is everyone using loki ? Answer well to this one and you will know what needs to be changed. ---
**Author:** ![Stragak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stragak/32/132931_2.png) [@Stragak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stragak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/334 "2018-10-03T16:23:32Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Considering that everybody only uses Lokis now, I think it’s unlikely that they’re happy with it. But are they not happy with not getting right the first time or the changes overall? That seems to be the key distinction. The Loki was in a SAD spot prior to the change so they buffed it to gain popularity now I think it is time to dial it back. ---
**Author:** ![Kuklo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuklo/32/162907_2.png) [@Kuklo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuklo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/336 "2018-10-03T16:25:31Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I spent 10 years in high sec. I run level 4s in my spare time. If you spent 10 y in HS, you must to know how you can avoid wardec and how big an impact is. And believe me, it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/337 "2018-10-03T16:26:07Z")
> [@Stragak](#): > > But are they not happy with not getting right the first time or the changes overall? That seems to be the key distinction. The Loki was in a SAD spot prior to the change so they buffed it to gain popularity now I think it is time to dial it back. The point I was making was that the T3C changes nerfed the Tengu and the Proteus, buffed the Loki. The change resulted in everybody shifting to Lokis. The problem of T3C balance still exists, it just the opposite of what it was before. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/338 "2018-10-03T16:26:49Z")
> [@Kuklo](#): > > If you spent 10 y in HS, you must to know how you can avoid wardec and how big an impact is. And believe me, it’s not. If you saw the data, you wouldn’t be making the claim that the impact is low. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/339 "2018-10-03T16:27:59Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If you saw the data, you wouldn’t be making the claim that the impact is low. > [@gnshadowninja](#): > > @Brisc_Rubal @CCP_Larrikin > > With regards to the statistics of corporations that had been at war and activity, was this made to include that most members leave that corporation once the war had gone in and reformed another? > For example, many times ive put in wars against 50 man entities for them to leave and join another corporation then do it again once that got decced as well. Your stats would show 2 corporations with -100 player activity. Any info on this please? ---
**Author:** ![Stragak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stragak/32/132931_2.png) [@Stragak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stragak)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/340 "2018-10-03T16:29:39Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > Focus group like with T3C would be good start. > > Because that worked out so well. 🙂 So how was the focus group the root cause of the problem. As hinted at? ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/341 "2018-10-03T16:30:31Z")
Tech 3 -cruisers are much less OP than they used to be. while the balance of loki and proteus is off, they are in a much better place than they used to be overall. Hell, even the focus group called out that the loki was too good and proteus was lacking when compared to the rest. While the focus group didn’t get everything 100% correct on the first run, I think it’s still a win to the group. Also: > [@Norian\_Rever](#): > > I’m a potential voter and part of the playerbase. > You SHOULD care what I think, correct? Weren’t you leaving? How can you vote if you don’t have an active account? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=18)