# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 171
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3449 "2018-10-19T23:36:01Z")
December: “Wars can only be declared against corporations with structures.” And then they’ll iterate as they work on a deep-dive fix. ![wars](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/c/e/ce5e1e6a3958f1715327fb3e9d3cee53bb17c862.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3450 "2018-10-19T23:36:26Z")
@Proteus_Onzo Hope you’re watching the keynote. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3451 "2018-10-20T00:16:20Z")
Yeah, they basically made _all_ corps ‘social corps’ unless they have a structure anchored in highsec, come December. Heh. I don’t think Goonswarm does, either. Heh. Heheh. ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3452 "2018-10-20T00:18:30Z")
Only structure in hi sec can result in a war dec? ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3453 "2018-10-20T00:20:31Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > December: “Wars can only be declared against corporations with structures.” No specific mention of Hi-Sec only. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3454 "2018-10-20T00:34:24Z")
Actually, yeah, there was. Go watch it again. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3455 "2018-10-20T00:45:04Z")
Was that to me? It was pretty clear it was about Corps with structures, not just Hi-Sec corps with structures. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3456 "2018-10-20T03:20:08Z")
Yeah I’ll be interested in what the other future changes are going to be. I think this initial change is a tad short-sighted because what WILL happen is the meta will turn into groups not owning structures with their main corps / alliances. They will have these structures anchored on 1-man alt corps and allow access to the people they want through access lists. This will allow the body of their membership to remain in a corp that is unable to be wardec’d while reaping the benefits of owning a structure in Highsec. So what this does to wars is create a situation where daily “content” is gone, and instead we will have gameplay that consists of dec’ing 1-man alt corps that own a structure. This will essentially push away the war dec guy or group that used this for daily content. The Mercenary groups that take structure contracts like Pirat will just have to go find their daily content in other areas or methods. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3457 "2018-10-20T03:46:28Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > The Mercenary groups that take structure contracts like Pirat will just have to go find their daily content in other areas or methods. Thats a blatant exaggeration. Structures will still exist and its not like the change will stop them from being attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3458 "2018-10-20T03:49:21Z")
I didn’t say that people wouldn’t stop anchoring structures and that people would stop blowing them up. What I’m saying is that shooting structures owned by 1-man corps as daily content isn’t likely to be very many peoples idea of ideal content. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3459 "2018-10-20T03:49:38Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > They will have these structures anchored on 1-man alt corps and allow access to the people they want through access lists. This will allow the body of their membership to remain in a corp that is unable to be wardec’d while reaping the benefits of owning a structure in Highsec. Maybe, but it’ll mean the structures still get blown up, because the guy in the solo corp can still get wardec’d… and _will_, especially if you guys have to deal with a leaner selection of targets. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3460 "2018-10-20T03:51:55Z")
Yeah sure, there’s still going to be the guys that come around and try to ransom and extort out of the structure owners. That’s a small SMALL group of players that enjoy doing that. What we find in almost all cases is that structures aren’t defended so it’s very unlikely that you’ll get a real fight or brawl out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3461 "2018-10-20T03:53:44Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > What we find in almost all cases is that structures aren’t defended so it’s very unlikely that you’ll get a real fight or brawl out of it. Yup, totally agree there, too. We’ll have to see how the implementation goes. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3462 "2018-10-20T06:25:40Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > What I’m saying is that shooting structures owned by 1-man corps as daily content isn’t likely to be very many peoples idea of ideal content. If a structure is worth shooting at then it doesn’t matter if the owner is a 1-person, or 100-person corporation. The determination of ideal is in the eye of the beholder, to paraphrase a well known saying. Some want the easy battle, some want the challenge. Nothing in this announcement changes anything for structure owners, nor the people who pursue wars upon them. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3463 "2018-10-20T06:30:19Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > What we find in almost all cases is that structures aren’t defended so it’s very unlikely that you’ll get a real fight or brawl out of it. According to your experience the present situation is structures aren’t defended. The future situation of 1-person corporations is that structures aren’t defended. What remedy are you looking for, Is it to force people to join a corporation who’s structure is under attack? If you want a real fight, change your targets, rather than press gang actors into the roles. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3464 "2018-10-20T07:04:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Yup, totally agree there, too. We’ll have to see how the implementation goes. Well they did say a more holistic and comprehensive fix is coming next year. I wouldn’t worry too much about this stop-gap solution. What matters for wars and the future is how they decide to fix this long-term. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3465 "2018-10-20T07:11:08Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > If a structure is worth shooting at then it doesn’t matter if the owner is a 1-person, or 100-person corporation. The determination of ideal is in the eye of the beholder, to paraphrase a well known saying. I would love to see CCP’s statistics on structures that are getting killed in Highsec. The truth is that in most cases there’s little value or reason to blow them up if you aren’t being paid to do so. I’m sure there are players that find personal reasons to blow them up, but I’m wagering that the amount of structures in Highsec being removed is laughable, and that’s evident through all this structure spam. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Some want the easy battle, some want the challenge. Nothing in this announcement changes anything for structure owners, nor the people who pursue wars upon them. I’m just commenting on the fact that there’s not a lot of meaningful content in shooting a structure owned by a 1-man corp that is just going to be replaced without any thought. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > According to your experience the present situation is structures aren’t defended. The future situation of 1-person corporations is that structures aren’t defended. What remedy are you looking for, Is it to force people to join a corporation who’s structure is under attack? If you want a real fight, change your targets, rather than press gang actors into the roles. It’s not that I don’t want a real fight. I love the brawls and fights we get when we have to defend a clients structure or the fights we get when someone decides to defend one we’re attacking. The point I’m making is that those situations are few and far between. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 7:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3466 "2018-10-20T07:16:18Z")
> **[Markeedragon & Miners Defend 5 Stations](https://evenews24.com/2018/10/12/markeedragon-miners-defend-5-stations/)** > > Saturday, October 6th The Forge system of Uchoshi saw a fairly large conflict, at least for HighSec. Markeedragon, and his Borca Alliance have been wardec’ed and today they oversaw the defense of \[…\] Well that was one defence, but I went and had a look and the structures were no longer owned by the defender. I have been running around hisec a bit to have a look at the number of structures and activity. Quite a few structures, a large number in low power which is not a good sign. I hope that this is correct: > [@Arrendis](#): > > Yeah, they basically made _all_ corps ‘social corps’ unless they have a structure anchored in highsec, come December. > > Heh. I don’t think Goonswarm does, either. Heh. Heheh. Only because I want to see the blanket war deckers bite the dust, sorry Faylee but it is necessary. Still those corps that want to develop in hisec will have that blockage to get over, we will just have to see how much it weakens war deckers. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3467 "2018-10-20T07:38:25Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > we will just have to see how much it weakens war deckers. It won’t 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3468 "2018-10-20T07:44:31Z")
> [@gnshadowninja](#): > > It won’t 😉 You say that, but what exactly are you doing now? I saw in another thread that you said that you were no longer with PIRAT / Vendetta (I say that due to the merger after the Vendetta alliance take over.) I know you do ganking and you have stuff with HTP or PHEW. So I guess you will get your kicks elsewhere while waiting. So in your case, no issue. Still for those that want to operate structures as the next step up in hisec they still have that threat and they have to hope that the war deckers weaken a bit. You could be right. The key thing is if it is structures in hisec, I so hope that this is the case because of the wekaneing part of the equation and that will have an impact on ganking too… I am looking forward to the more detailed deep dive on this subject, I hope CCP discuss this with hisec indy players too and those that want to fight against war deckers. I don’t think that PIRAT have any structures? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=170) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=172)