# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 174
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3509 "2018-10-21T10:33:56Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Yet you haven’t set said group up anytime in the last 10 years, and nor has anyone else. That is because the mechanics did not exist for me to think it worth doing it, and I will not be attempting it if the mechanics are not there. But there are some groups doing it now, Jita Holdings for one… > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > I therefore judge your chances of success in doing this to be pretty insignificant, Emergent gameplay… > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > and your claims on this to have as much meaning as prayers for flood victims. I’m sure you mean well and all, but reality does not support your dreams as likely. Reality based on the current system, mechanics can create change. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3510 "2018-10-21T10:50:27Z")
So, I read Sort wanted to add to the minutes that this incoming changes will be worst for NS in years. Any other CSM opinions? There are no NDA, now. So far it looks like huge disaster. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3511 "2018-10-21T11:01:26Z")
This bit? Sort Dragon asks what the damage cap is and CCP Fozzie says that hasn’t been decided but will probably be less than an Astrahus. Sort Dragon says this will be the worst change to 0.0 in the last 10 years and says the team should go back to the drawing board. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3512 "2018-10-21T11:46:53Z")
I thought he mention all incoming structures not timers only. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3513 "2018-10-21T14:17:00Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Any other CSM opinions? There are no NDA, now. So far it looks like huge disaster. The NDA is still fully in effect for anything that was covered by it. They can’t tell you anything CCP hasn’t said themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3514 "2018-10-21T14:20:22Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > What you want to do is put back the control of their Eve game play to end the war for the defender so for a small hisec corp a rush attack on the structure controlling their war dec should be possible. So it is not so much a skill balance but an opportunity balance. I think this is likely the key to making this stuff work out. There is never going to be a way to make all wars “fair” any more than we can make all fights “fair” - most people won’t take a fair fight, if we’re being honest. Everybody goes in wanting the advantage. Right now, though, the attacker advantage is so stacked against the defender that the meta has become to just log off. That’s a bad mechanic. I hope that the first iteration with structures will be a good step and then when they finish everything in the spring we will have solved some of these issues and made stuff a bit less lopsided. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3515 "2018-10-21T14:38:32Z")
After digging through all the data over the last 4 months, I finally found the number that motivated CCP: 200,000,000.00 If we had only known earlier it would only take this to initiate needed fundamental changes in EVE gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3516 "2018-10-21T14:42:05Z")
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it very much. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3517 "2018-10-21T14:55:53Z")
What feedback/focus group is CCP planning to use for Wardec design and feedback from the players? Concerned we’ll get a replay of RW: where most of the design/feedback group said “Great!”, rest of HS said “WTF?!” I can already see issues with having only structure destruction ending the war for the defender with no other way out except paying a surrender fee. Smaller scope wars would encourage more defenders to risk assets in space; otherwise the defender will still say docked, attackable structure or not. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3518 "2018-10-21T14:58:48Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > What feedback/focus group is CCP planning to use for Wardec design and feedback from the players? Me. Just me. Nobody else. And I’ll be in NS/j-space the whole time. (This is a joke. I am not serious. Do not take this seriously. The person I’m talking to, doubtless, has no idea I mean them and will take this seriously.) ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3519 "2018-10-21T14:59:43Z")
LOL!! Yeah, preparing for the incoming spam posts… ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3520 "2018-10-21T22:11:09Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > After digging through all the data over the last 4 months, I finally found the number that motivated CCP: > > 200,000,000.00 > > If we had only known earlier it would only take this to initiate needed fundamental changes in EVE gameplay. Is that 200 million players that no longer play because of war declarations? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3521 "2018-10-21T23:12:50Z")
No, he’s referring to the $200,000,000 performance bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3522 "2018-10-22T03:30:21Z")
Oddly CSM is allowed to voice an opinion, just not what is said behind closed doors. It is always fairt to ask them what they think of specific known decisions like those announced at Vegas m (I have signed a few of those NDAs) ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3523 "2018-10-22T05:31:25Z")
That is why I’m asking them about Vegas stuff. We have far more information that was wrote on minutes. Are they not concerned about buffing NS defenders? Or NS already playing with itself so it is not much of the problem (while it’s still is because of stagnation). On the other hand, what do people expected from player build gates? That they will connect us with unknown space? ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3524 "2018-10-22T05:39:05Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > (…) On the other hand, what do people expected from player build gates? That they will connect us with unknown space? Well… That’s exactly what CCP said in 2014, with a fanfest trailer included. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3525 "2018-10-22T06:09:53Z")
It’s not. CCP hinted at it as a possibility for the future, not that it is what this iteration of player gates would do. Can’t fix people who read things into statements that aren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3526 "2018-10-22T06:12:17Z")
Which may still happen. CCP said on fanfest something about non capitals space and that gates may be connected to existing ones -\> jove space maybe. Whole introduction on gates is bad imo. They should shut off all NS gates and introduce real space colonization with player build gates instead (all of them public ofc). Content for years. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/374866_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3527 "2018-10-22T06:41:36Z")
The problem is, how do you convince people to go out there? Before CCP opened full throttle the rewards to null, it would have made sense to add new space with more rewards, but now let’s say that the rewards are the same as for null, but with mroe risk… not gonna go. If rewards are lower than null, not gonna go. If rewards are better than null, then the game will be in a even worse situation than is now with NPC bounties. As many times before, I had some interesting ideas on how to add new space to EVE without it becoming Nullsec 2.0, but at this pont, neither CCP seems inclined to develop that part of the Rubicon plan nor it makes sense for the reasons I mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3528 "2018-10-22T06:48:24Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > The problem is, how do you convince people to go out there? Before CCP opened full throttle the rewards to null, it would have made sense to add new space with more rewards, but now let’s say that the rewards are the same as for null, but with mroe risk… not gonna go. If rewards are lower than null, not gonna go. If rewards are better than null, then the game will be in a even worse situation than is now with NPC bounties. you mean the jove space? Without caps? Where big coalition can’t stomp anybody with titans? May be fun. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=173) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=175)