# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 176
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3549 "2018-10-22T16:16:57Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Link them all to main hub or capital One Gate per System. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3550 "2018-10-22T16:26:41Z")
Only?! This is sad. So at the end they just POS replacement with better graphics? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3551 "2018-10-22T16:42:22Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > which part of “we will have gates now in every system possible” you don’t get it? Which parts of ‘you can only have 1 in each system, just like current jbs’ and ‘WE ALREADY HAVE THEM IN EVERY SYSTEM’ don’t _you_? > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > So at the end they just POS replacement with better graphics? They’ve been saying all along this is to bring the upwell structures to parity with Starbases. That means **yes** , these are just replacements so they can remove the POS code. Have you not understood that that was the goal _all along_? ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3552 "2018-10-22T16:45:36Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > They’ve been saying all along this is to bring the upwell structures to parity with Starbases. That means **yes** , these are just replacements so they can remove the POS code. Have you not understood that that was the goal _all along_ ? I thought they will take “stargates” one step further. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3553 "2018-10-22T16:51:27Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > I thought they will take “stargates” one step further. They might. But not _at first_. And btw… > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Who cares about offensive using of jammers when defender just blob caps on you with gates without fatigue. They won’t be in tether range. Do you know why people don’t _already_ gate their capitals into systems where someone’s attacking the jb/beacon/jammer? It’s because a gate is something you can watch. You can know they’re gonna come in by watching the other side. That means you can have all kinds of crap waiting to slow them down, like HICs, dictor bubbles, etc. At 200km from the nearest cit, there isn’t a whole lot the cit can do to a suddenly-decloaking group of interdictors. And then their capital fleet is stuck in bubbles, probably in tidi, while interdictors keep decloaking, bubbling, and recloaking once they burn off a bit. And that’s assuming you didn’t RF the gate in the first place, so they have to wait a whole day to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3554 "2018-10-22T17:50:31Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > How about you let players balance that out themselves? 15 years wasn’t long enough for players to balance it out themselves. Time to pay the piper. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3555 "2018-10-22T21:00:21Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The intent, obviously, is that people who live in space with someone else’s ihub can anchor a defensive jammer if needed, but it’s going to be used offensively, _trust me_ . You’re right. Seems like a return to the SBU/TCU nonsense of old. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3556 "2018-10-22T21:03:32Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Who cares about offensive using of jammers when defender just blob caps on you with gates without fatigue. If an offensive force is able to use a defender’s jump bridge, someone in the ACL department messed up, or you’re being AWOX’d. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3557 "2018-10-22T21:04:17Z")
Capitals can take gates like any other ship. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3558 "2018-10-23T03:04:00Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Seems like a return to the SBU/TCU nonsense of old. lol. The SBU nonsense was about a billion times better than entosising. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3559 "2018-10-23T06:12:33Z")
As difficult as it is to get HS corps to PvP, its even harder to get NS corps to PvP. Arguably NS players are even more PvP averse than HS players, in proportion. Many are in NS for the fat PvE rewards, and thats what they want to farm, and they want as little PvP incentives/mechanics as possible interfering with their income. Nor is this just about caps, a mere VNI Nullbear earns orders of magnitude more than a VNI HSbear, and arguably at far less risk. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3560 "2018-10-23T06:22:44Z")
Arrendis, pretty much what I was going to say on the jump bridges, though I do disagree on the SBU’s being better than the current sov system, at least as it is now with the recent adjustments and the ships around it. People will want to use those jump bridges because of the lack of jump fatigue, however that exposes them to being waterboarded and as such people are worrying too much. I am fine with it. I am also glad to see you stating that hisec had been massively over fished, which is the truth of it all. I might as well not bother posting with you covering it all… * * * As a general point, I have noticed that there is a lot of cleanup of structures going on in hisec. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3561 "2018-10-23T09:23:22Z")
HS structure spam is an eye-sore, at worst. So what if a corp has 1, 10, or 100 structures in a HS system. You dont have to use them, and can beat them just by having better prices at your own 1 structure there. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3562 "2018-10-23T13:43:29Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You dont have to use them, and can beat them just by having better prices at your own 1 structure there. Within a system industrial indexes are applied to all citadel structures regardless of ownership. If one medium engineering complex offers its services to the public for free, it will drive up the activity index charge on everyone’s engineering complex, even large and extra large complex’s as build jobs are submitted. There’s no way of getting “better” prices other than destroying everyone else’s engineering complex to reduce the amount of activity and thusly cause index based charges to be reduced. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3563 "2018-10-23T13:44:49Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Within a system industrial indexes are applied to all citadel structures regardless of ownership. How does this apply in HS? ---
**Author:** ![Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakura_hoshizora/32/207431_2.png) [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakura_Hoshizora)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3564 "2018-10-23T14:09:53Z")
The same… Every job created in any citadel/station in the system is calculated into the system index. The cost for a job is “estimated value x system index + estimated value x system index x citadel tax rate” The tax set by the owner/npc faction to jobs is calculcated from that system index cost, so you can only be more competitive in the same system with a lower tax rate. If one citadel has 0% tax then the only cost for all jobs in that citadel will be based on the system index. Every other citadel with taxes will have a small price increase compared to that station. If you want to have the station in system where everyone does their industry you have to kill any other station in system with a lower tax rate. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3565 "2018-10-23T14:12:11Z")
> [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > The cost for a job is “estimated value x system index + estimated value x system index x citadel tax rate” Source for this equation regarding HS systems? ---
**Author:** ![Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakura_hoshizora/32/207431_2.png) [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakura_Hoshizora)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3566 "2018-10-23T14:14:25Z")
It is the same calculation for all systems, regardless of security, and has been like this since I can remember. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3567 "2018-10-23T14:16:10Z")
> [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > It is the same calculation for all systems, regardless of security, and has been like this since I can remember. > [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > The cost for a job is “estimated value x system index + estimated value x system index x citadel tax rate” What is the system index element in this equation, in HS? ---
**Author:** ![Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakura_hoshizora/32/207431_2.png) [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakura_Hoshizora)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3568 "2018-10-23T14:17:07Z")
> **[The Price of Change | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/article/the-price-of-change)** > > Greetings space pharaohs, Let's talk about job pricing! Older blogs in this series can be found in the archive: Reprocess all the things! - Building better Worlds - Industry UI - Researching, the Future   Currently, the amount you usually pay for... Here is the link to the dev-blob where they announced the industry changes (back in 2014) And again, the calculation is the same for every Sec space, so the question of HS or not HS is just not important. It’s system based, not security based. Addition: The security rating is only important for one thing and one thing only: Rig Bonus. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=175) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=177)