# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 177
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3569 "2018-10-23T14:45:34Z")
> [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > Here is the link to the dev-blob where they announced the industry changes (back in 2014) Did this go live as is in this blog? How does it effect HS? Has it been changed since? ---
**Author:** ![Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sakura_hoshizora/32/207431_2.png) [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sakura_Hoshizora)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3570 "2018-10-23T14:54:29Z")
You must be trolling… I told you three times how it affects HS. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3571 "2018-10-23T15:06:02Z")
> [@Sakura\_Hoshizora](#): > > I told you three times how it affects HS. You linked a preliminary devblog, not patch notes of release. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3572 "2018-10-23T15:07:14Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Did this go live as is in this blog? > How does it effect HS? > Has it been changed since? It went live as in the blog. It took effect everywhere, in all types of space. The only change I can remember is that they removed the teams you could hire, because instead of being used, they were all hired up so people _couldn’t_ use them against their enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3573 "2018-10-23T15:08:48Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It took effect everywhere, in all types of space. How does this favor more structures in a system by a corp in HS? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3574 "2018-10-23T19:33:09Z")
The system favours spreading jobs out, through different systems. In nullsec, you have the opposing pull of having to defend your system infrastructure, and the people actually using the systems. In highsec, the people are mostly protected by Concord (assuming they’re not in a wardecced corp) So you don’t have so much of a pull. It incentivizes spreading out to more systems. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3575 "2018-10-23T23:48:50Z")
Could any one CSM member be able to release official numbers on new player/pilot creation over the past 1/3/6/12 months with the numbers split between Omega nd Alpha accounts? Would also be interested on the same average ratio of Omega/Alpha pilots actually playing the game on any given recent day. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3576 "2018-10-24T01:58:49Z")
Been saying for years now that the NPE should teach and actually have PvP for a PvP game; instead of same old PvE. Perhaps just my own cynicism that some have a vested interest in the status quo where by new players are conveyor belt passed into the barrel for the fish shoot. The cup of tears maybe runneth over, but number of retained accounts is running dry. So when the antelope and wildebeest in New Eden are extinct do you think that the lions and hyenas will turn on each other? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3577 "2018-10-24T02:07:04Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Could any one CSM member be able to release official numbers on new player/pilot creation over the past 1/3/6/12 months with the numbers split between Omega nd Alpha accounts? > Would also be interested on the same average ratio of Omega/Alpha pilots actually playing the game on any given recent day. > > Thank you. We can ask for the data, but it’s unlikely they’ll give it to us or release it. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3578 "2018-10-24T02:08:29Z")
Thanks, I appreciate the reply! ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3579 "2018-10-24T02:09:00Z")
Wish I could give a better answer, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3580 "2018-10-24T02:10:10Z")
Hell, if a Lobbyist can’t convince them , then there’s no hope. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3581 "2018-10-24T03:32:38Z")
I don’t. it is a consideration that the data may provide the means to exacerbate issue even further. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3582 "2018-10-24T07:46:59Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > Been saying for years now that the NPE should teach and actually have PvP for a PvP game; instead of same old PvE. Will people stop it with the same tired old mentality stemming from a 15 year old jizz soaked parchment they once got with EvE when they brought it home in a box. PvP is not as fun for everyone as it is for some. For the moment, lets put aside the massive advantage in skill points, ISK and numerical superiority that the entrenched player groups have and look at one of the biggest drawbacks of a single shard universe. Latency. Due to where I live and where countless others live, we will never be as effective a pilot as others who live closer to the EvE server. I have warped into fights and been yellow boxed whilst my client still says I am slowing from warp. I have received loss mails for the ship I am still sitting in. I have been blown up on. a gate frantically spamming the jump button because the client regularly interprets ‘jump’ as ‘warp to’ unless I do some weird dance of ‘warp, cancel warp, align, click jump gate’. Drone boats are the only equaliser, and while I can respect that CCP Rise has strived for “balance” with changes to drone mechanics over the years, every drone nerf has been a big “F U” to those who don’t have a sub 100 ms ping. Yes, PvP is part of EvE, but EvE has grown beyond the point where its a PvP game with some PvE, but a game where people have choice in how much they wish to expose themselves to either PvP or PvE. > [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > So when the antelope and wildebeest in New Eden are extinct do you think that the lions and hyenas will turn on each other? If CCP do their job right, the Lions and Hyenas will have no choice to do anything but. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3583 "2018-10-24T12:01:07Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > PvP is not as fun for everyone as it is for some. For the moment, lets put aside the massive advantage in skill points, ISK and numerical superiority that the entrenched player groups have and look at one of the biggest drawbacks of a single shard universe. Ever played Euchre? It is a competitive card game. Very old. Can be played with 2 people, 3 (called “Cut-Throat”) or 4 where opposite seated are in partnership. It is a good foundation to to progress on to 500 or Bridge. You do not learn how the game discussing the manufacture of playing cards. Nor would you go to a club and insist on playing solitaire. In Eve any player should have certain minimum understandings. Fitting for defence as a primary consideration for any ship flown. Situational awareness of the environment; the map, d-scan and the over-view. Some basic ship class identification. Experience with the primary and secondary weapons of the race they commence with. Directive for core skills to focus on. Yeah, none of these things helps with a higher rate of ore you could mine or how much stuff your industrial hauler can carry to sell. But the former has a proven track record of Euchring the later. The Rule of P: Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3584 "2018-10-24T12:03:07Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > The Rule of P: Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Everyone likes to blow the hell out of a smaller enemy with little to no risk. Makes epeen hard and stronk. Very few like to fight against impossible odds, nor is it wise or advised to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3585 "2018-10-24T12:09:53Z")
> [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > Yeah, none of these things helps with a higher rate of ore you could mine or how much stuff your industrial hauler can carry to sell. Which means it’s poor game design to expect all these things yet make them irrelevant to a task. This could easily be solved though by stopping with the BS “modern era” design on industrials and instead adopting designs more based on WW2 engineering tanks or spanish main era gold galleons. Where even the industrials carried plenty of weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3586 "2018-10-24T12:18:22Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Where even the industrials carried plenty of weapons. Not viable in EVE. Your example is flawed, galleons didnt produce anything, they just transported valuable goods. You can transport very valuable commodities in EVE in combat capable vessels already. The best resource harvesting ships can do, is tank and speed. Rest is up to taking precaustiins when and where you move, and with what support. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3587 "2018-10-24T12:19:56Z")
It’s entirely viable in Eve to take inspiration from it, and give industrials weapons. There is literally nothing stopping it from happening. it’s just people are stuck inside the box that they (indistrials) have to be helpless targets. Despite null years and years ago whining forever how bad freighter escort runs were. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3588 "2018-10-24T12:31:04Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > There is literally nothing stopping it from happening. it’s just people are stuck inside the box that they (indistrials) have to be helpless targets. Dunno about that. Miners in Player NS are hardly helpless under a cap shield, or just warping to safe when intel shows an unknown(s) entering system or coming down pipes. IRL, resource harvesting equipment rarely has any armaments and its a long tradition in games that resource harvesting vehicles dont have weapons, all the way back to Dune 2. Even in UO, a resource/crafting character would not have PvP skills. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=176) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=178)