# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 181
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3649 "2018-10-25T00:29:30Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Even if it makes no difference in a particular gank 1 v 5 it will create the feeling it could be a difference. And the feeling of a chance is a big thing. Advanced damage control ( like on assault frigates and heavy assault cruisers ) or invulnerability fields that actually make you invulnerable for a certain amount of seconds would make a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3650 "2018-10-25T00:31:55Z")
With the current Concord timers those would be vastly op. So no in the current situation. Of course I also want the gank timer lifted to several minutes if industrials get fitting bluffs and weapons. That could go alongside those changes to discourage pure glass cannon fits against an active pilot certainly as they would then have time to shoot back at you. But not with the current gank timers. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3651 "2018-10-25T00:59:02Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > I feel that DST aren’t in an ideal place and that 4ish turrets would work well on them. I don’t think they’re in a ideal place either. The bonus to overheating propulsion modules is laughable. A 10MN or 50MN prop mod isn’t going to let you outrun a tackle frigate unless you fill all the other slots with over drives or nanofibers who’s drawbacks really negate the entire reason for being in a hauler to begin with. I think many of the existing industrial ships need to be reduced by shifting the role of hauling over to the ORE faction as two generic haulers and the entire ORE faction given flat resistances like the Society of Conscious thought ships. ---
**Author:** ![Khan\_Wrenth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khan_wrenth/32/14130_2.png) [@Khan\_Wrenth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khan_Wrenth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3652 "2018-10-25T03:32:50Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Of course I also want the gank timer lifted to several minutes if industrials get fitting bluffs and weapons. Just a reminder, that every ship in space is a potential gank target. Increasing that time gives gankers extra time to ambush PvE fitted ships, freighters, and Orcas too. It would be immensely bad and completely bizarre to indirectly nerf everything else in space just because mid-sized cargo movers can fit a half-rack of weapons. Now, if you want to advocate for that extended timer, that’s fine, but it has to be a wholly separate discussion than anything regarding industrial ships. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3653 "2018-10-25T03:40:19Z")
I’m including freighters and orcas in my increased fittings intent in general. Orcas aren’t too badly off but they could do with more room for things like active tank. Freighters totally could use real fittings and with a gank timer change they wouldn’t need nerfing in any way because the timer increase would be their nerf. As for pve fitted ships. Yes I am. it doesn’t matter they dont have tackle because once the ganker goes criminal they cant warp anyway. And they already have self defence. So… yes? I’m fine with more pve ships being ganked. Im not suggesting this as a ganking nerf but a sideways shift to a different feel. ---
**Author:** ![Khan\_Wrenth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khan_wrenth/32/14130_2.png) [@Khan\_Wrenth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khan_Wrenth)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3654 "2018-10-25T03:58:22Z")
All that is perfectly fine. I just wanted to make sure that if you were advocating for it, that you were remembering those ships would be effected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3655 "2018-10-25T10:23:12Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > it’s about having an industrial ship that isn’t a sitting duck. Support, Tank and escape are their means of survival. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3656 "2018-10-25T10:25:58Z")
Ah yes… the infamous “Just have an escort with you 24/7” argument… It’s been shown that that is some of the most boring gameplay imaginable, everyone hates escort quests in MMO’s and you only have to do those for a short time, not the entire day while the person runs backwards and forwards doing their hauling. Null hated it so much they cried and cried till they got Jump Freighters to not have to do escort runs any more. So why do we still expect people to do this in high sec? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3657 "2018-10-25T10:27:27Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So why do we still expect people to do this in high sec? An escort wont save you from a suicide gank You dont need an escort if you fly as non-wardeccable Corp. And said support, not escort, for example to web you into warp away from a bumper. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3658 "2018-10-25T10:36:34Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Erroch, aka DJ Erroch of EVE Radio, used to do an Industrial Roam every so often, taking barges, haulers, and mining ships of all kinds out looking to kill people in null. Those were fun roams. Did that a few times with him. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3659 "2018-10-25T10:39:45Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Those were fun roams. Fun as a gimmick once in a blue moon, perhaps. Zarvoxtoral used to run Interceptor roams in NS, but they where nerfed to no longer have interdiction immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3660 "2018-10-25T11:11:44Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > With the current Concord timers those would be vastly op. Interesting. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And the feeling of a chance is a big thing. Yet realistically there is often no chance, the maximum EHP for a hauler can be easily calculated and all the gankers have to do is show up with the right number of catalysts or talos to meet that EHP in DPS before the CONCORD response arrives. Why is it OP for the defender to have a module that will make the attacker commit more than the minimum ? Why is it okay that gankers can ply their trade with near mathematical certainty? One of the two aught to give. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3661 "2018-10-25T11:14:02Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Zarvoxtoral used to run Interceptor roams in NS, but they where nerfed to no longer have interdiction immunity. Interceptor roams. Lets all go 40 jumps through null to avoid fighting anything that threatens us to blow up one epithal full of PI and some dude AFK in a vexor. Only half the interceptors were nerfed, its not like Zarvoxtoral needs to train anything new to fly the ones that are still immune. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3662 "2018-10-25T11:39:58Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Fun as a gimmick once in a blue moon, perhaps. Fun is fun. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3663 "2018-10-25T11:43:17Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Fun as a gimmick once in a blue moon, perhaps. > > Fun is fun. True. Some people find fun in the strangest activities. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3664 "2018-10-25T11:57:00Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > True. Some people find fun in the strangest activities. Like constantly posting on the forums after getting banned multiple times. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3665 "2018-10-25T12:15:59Z")
Ban doesnt mean much on this forum. Anywhere on internet actually. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3666 "2018-10-25T12:16:23Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > True. Some people find fun in the strangest activities. > > Like constantly posting on the forums after getting banned multiple times. Like wrecking a CSM candidacy thread with spam reporting. People have strange ideas of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3667 "2018-10-25T12:24:45Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > Show me how you fit a caracal > > Or better, how do you _fit_ your garmurs? @Proteus_Onzo Still waiting ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3668 "2018-10-25T12:27:58Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > > [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > > > Show me how you fit a caracal > > > > Or better, how do you _fit_ your garmurs? > > @Proteus_Onzo > Still waiting I dont fly either one, so I dont fit them at all. How do you fit your T1 haulers? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=180) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=182)