# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 187
**Author:** ![gregora\_mai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gregora_mai/32/123476_2.png) [@gregora\_mai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gregora_mai)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3769 "2018-10-27T16:35:50Z")
When you think Wardecs in Highsec are a problem, how would CSM call this? > **[Rhea | xg chi | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73135940/)** > > xg chi (Garoun Investment Bank) lost their Rhea in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Joel Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 16,961,820,762.17 ISK > **[Rhea | Jezz Darmi | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73135103/)** > > Jezz Darmi (ISK Acquisition) lost their Rhea in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Jayden Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 35,230,102,953.47 ISK > **[Anshar | Liz Loader | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73133402/)** > > Liz Loader (Aliastra) lost their Anshar in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Tax Collector Max (Gate Tax Collection Agency) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 14,921,549,815.53 ISK > **[Anshar | Raynah | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73133032/)** > > Raynah (StormFront Logistics and Industrial Command) lost their Anshar in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Joshua Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 11,162,691,748.80 ISK > **[Rhea | Paladin Starroam | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73132367/)** > > Paladin Starroam (Poitot Shipyards) lost their Rhea in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Jayden Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 10,344,538,764.34 ISK > **[Ark | chevjumper | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/73130631/)** > > chevjumper (Viziam) lost their Ark in Jita (The Forge). Final Blow by Joshua Kusion (KUSION SPECIAL TEAM) flying in a Talos. Total Value: 18,231,925,690.68 ISK And this in only today my friends… ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3770 "2018-10-27T16:40:48Z")
> [@gregora\_mai](#): > > When you think Wardecs in Highsec are a problem, how would CSM call this? Suicide ganking stats should be investigated by CCP and reported for consideration by CSM, same as this mass wardeec issue was. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3771 "2018-10-27T16:41:20Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > That would include you as also human. Yes, I know. My statement stands. Human beings suck. Human beings, taken collectively, are short-sighted, stupid, venal, gluttonous filth that consume everything in their path well in excess of any sense of need or use, casually commit violence on anything and everything around them including (especially) one another, and willfully deny anything that doesn’t fit their preconceptions. Human beings suck. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > As I detailed above, its a serious concern whether CCP has the means to actually investigate and enforce its policy regarding a player not flying multiple accounts in EVE, simultaneously, if they are not all Omegas. Yes, they do. Obviously, there are limitations to what they can do about VPNs, but yes, they can and do track IPs to look for things like virtual machines. > [@gregora\_mai](#): > > When you think Wardecs in Highsec are a problem, how would CSM call this? I dunno what the CSM would call it, but I call it one guy suicide-ganking all day. Maybe 2. In-gates are dangerous places for haulers. Keep a couple of buddies in-corp with webs when you come into Jita. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3772 "2018-10-27T16:45:32Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > My statement stands. Human beings suck Thus, you suck. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Yes, they do. Obviously, there are limitations to what they can do about VPNs, but yes, they can and do track IPs to look for things like virtual machines. I dont think CCP has effective means at this time to detect multiple simultaneous accounts run by one player, which are not all Omega, which is illegal. This is probably a result of the complications resulting from the client/launcher changes, and the Alpha/Omega split. The rule is a PERSON that has signed TOS/EULA is not allowed to fly multiple accounts simultaneously in EVE, no matter how they do it, unless all of them are Omega. This rule applies to the person, whom creates acxounts and characters. The person, IRL, is the one that signs the TOS/EULA and the accounts they create or the characters on them. Its a rule that extends to the person as the one that signed TOS/EULA ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3773 "2018-10-27T17:11:18Z")
Elite PVP you just have to stop being bad at EVE lmao ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3774 "2018-10-27T17:15:39Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > Elite PVP Suicide ganking is not “elite pvp”. Its PvE, because its weighed against unavoidable destruction of all involved in a criminal act by NPC CONCORD. No PvP is involved in the suicide gankers exploding, as they always will, by NPC CONCORD. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3775 "2018-10-27T17:22:33Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Thus, you suck. Have I ever said I didn’t? > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > I dont think CCP has effective means at this time to detect multiple simultaneous accounts run by one player, which are not all Omega, which is illegal. That’s nice. Yes, CCP has the ability to track which IPs are connecting to their servers, including at the level of your router. Hell, _you_ have capability, if you grab the right tools from the internet. No, I am not going to do your homework for you, go figure out which ones those are yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3776 "2018-10-27T17:29:31Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Its PvE uh huh > **[Player versus player](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player)** > > Player versus player (PvP) is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between human players. This is often compared to player versus environment (PvE), in which the game itself controls its players' opponents. The terms are most often used in games where both activities exist, particularly MMORPGs, MUDs, and other role-playing video games, to distinguish between gamemodes. PvP can be broadly used to describe any game, or aspect of a game, where players compete against each PvP c... here’s an article so you can ,grow your knowledge base instead of talking 💩 out of your silly arse 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3777 "2018-10-27T17:46:48Z")
And this is why no one takes EVE seriously as a PVP game anymore. People flip their sh\*t in BDO when you can buy a pair of green pants with +2 stats, but in EVE, here, have another 20+ fully fledged characters trailing behind you, people will think you’re ‘gud’, right 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3778 "2018-10-27T17:47:26Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Yes, CCP has the ability to track which IPs are connecting to their servers, including at the level of your router. Why then have there been players that stated themselves running multiple accounts simultaneously, by various means, which arent all Omegas, and wherent banned before they posted on GD for having done so for months? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3779 "2018-10-27T18:04:52Z")
Welcome to the world of VPNs and people with a functioning brain. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3780 "2018-10-27T18:47:47Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Welcome to the world of VPNs and people with a functioning brain. Using VPN doesnt change the terms of TOS/EULA you signed. YOU signed it. Not your accounts or characters. Its an IRL contract between you and CCP. You are not allowed, as the person that signed TOS/EULA, to run more more than one account simultaneously, no matter how you would do so, unless all of them are Omega. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3781 "2018-10-27T18:50:51Z")
does anyone else hear someone screaming in their echochamber because the argument isn’t going their way? 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3782 "2018-10-27T19:18:18Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > What other uses for scanning fit/cargo in HS did you have or provide, aside from cherrypicking targets for suicide ganks? You use ship scanners on neut boats to check targets cap You use them to scan citadel fits also. Also as scanning a fit or cargohold doesnt really equate to an actual offence i dont see how going suspect would work. I mean its the equivalent of looking in someones car. Making it go suspect for gankers would only stop them scanning tbh, wont stop them ganking; if anything theyd probably end up doing more of it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3783 "2018-10-27T19:18:57Z")
Yeah, no crap, Sherlock. People have been doing it because they can use VPNs to get away with it. OTHER THAN VPNs, CCP’s got plenty of tools to track these things. You know, kind of like what I said before: > [@Arrendis](#): > > Obviously, there are limitations to what they can do about VPNs, but yes, they can and do track IPs to look for things like virtual machines. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 7:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3784 "2018-10-28T07:45:32Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > People have been doing it because they can use VPNs to get away with it. OTHER THAN VPNs Several other ways than VPN. ---
**Author:** ![Grayclay](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/grayclay/32/193817_2.png) [@Grayclay](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Grayclay)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3785 "2018-10-30T15:38:02Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > plenty of tools If you live in a big city and look at your window in the middle of the night and see someone wearing all black peering through the windows of cars parked on the street, that person isn’t committing a crime, but they are sure as hell _suspect_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3786 "2018-10-30T16:31:12Z")
> [@Grayclay](#): > > that person isn’t committing a crime, but they are sure as hell _suspect_ . And you still can’t shoot them. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3787 "2018-10-30T16:36:19Z")
Unless you’re in some 3rd world country ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3788 "2018-10-30T16:38:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And you still can’t shoot them. Yes, you can. But it would be illegal. If they open your hood or boot to inspect the engine or cargo, that is illegal, and you can defend your property with force. You have no business or legal right to inspect whats under my hood or in my boot. Doing so is an invasion of my property, and I can defend myself and my property with force against it. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=186) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=188)