# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 190
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3830 "2018-10-30T18:09:15Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Still waiting for the answer: > > > [@Arrendis](#): > > > > How were you affected? > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You accessed my personal ships fit and cargo data. > > Neither of those are any of your business. Already answered. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3831 "2018-10-30T18:10:51Z")
Nope. That doesn’t demonstrate it affecting you _at all_. It has had no impact upon you. It has not made anything whatsoever different for you. You are not even aware it has happened. Please demonstrate what _actual, measurable impact this has had on you, from your perspective_. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3832 "2018-10-30T18:13:40Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Plase demonstrate what _actual, measurable impact this has had on you, from your perspective_ . You pried into my personal ships fit and cargo data, which is instrumental to my own defense, as private and not known by potential aggressors. If you know my fit and cargo, I am much more vulnerable to any attack by you than if my fit and cargo was not known by you. This is basic and obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3833 "2018-10-30T18:15:14Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You pried into my personal ships fit and cargo data, which is instrumental to my own defense, as private and not known by potential aggressors. And there has been zero impact upon you at this time. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > If you know my fit and cargo, I am much more vulnerable to any attack by you than if my fit and cargo was not known by you. And there has still been no impact upon you at this time. And as soon as people _do_ shoot at you, they get a Criminal flag, and CONCORD kills them. The thing that _has_ impacted you has been punished. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3834 "2018-10-30T18:18:58Z")
Nothing you said refutes why scanning should incur a suspect flag. I in turn explained how the data of my ships fit and cargo are private, and them being known to others via scanning reduces my capability to defend myself. **If you know a ships fit, you know what you need to take it out.** **If you know a ships cargo, you know whether its worth it or not to take them out.** This is really basic and obvious, and your dancing around it is equally obvious as to why. Dont try to spin this again. You, I and everyone else knows exactly what is the issue here. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3835 "2018-10-30T18:30:26Z")
I’m not dancing around anything. Do you know what changes a gank squad makes when they get a ship’s fit? _Maybe_ they change how many they bring. _Maybe_ they change their ammo type. Usually… they bring enough to kill your ship twice if it’s carrying a good tank, before they even get your fit, just in case people are idiots. Because people are idiots. Knowing your fit doesn’t change their math in any appreciable way. Either way, you’re _going_ to die when they open fire. So, still not demonstrating any measurable impact on you here. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3836 "2018-10-30T18:31:14Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You, I and everyone else knows exactly what is the issue here. The only real issue here is you. Not the game mechanics, not the bots, not the wardeccers, not the gankers, not @Arrendis, not anyone but you. I don’t even know why you keep doing the same thing over and over in the hopes that you succeed when you know you were doomed from the start Salvos. Just let it go, move on with your life ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3837 "2018-10-30T18:31:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So, still not demonstrating any measurable impact on you here. Do you refute that knowing the fit and cargo of a potential target are invaluable in regards to how to destroy them and whether destroying them is worthwhile? Are you stating that fit and cargo scanning is pointless and the acquired data without value? ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3838 "2018-10-30T18:36:06Z")
the police wear all black, so do most security… and ninjas of course… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3839 "2018-10-30T18:40:22Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Do you refute that knowing the fit and cargo of a potential target are invaluable in regards to how to destroy them and whether destroying them is worthwhile? > > Are you stating that fit and cargo scanning is pointless and the acquired data without value? Knowing how the target is fit is not ‘invaluable’ in regards to knowing how to destroy them. It’s a little helpful, but definitely not ‘invaluable’. Knowing their cargo is _relatively_ helpful in knowing whether or not you want to destroy them, sure. That doesn’t mean it directly impacts you at all, however. The action that has a direct impact upon you is the one people get CONCORDed for. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3840 "2018-10-30T18:42:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The action that has a direct impact upon you is the one people get CONCORDed for. You wont get CONCORDed for scanning their fit or cargo, either. Just a suspect flag, if not at war. Its fair and square. Getting someones fit and cargo data in HS warrants a suspect flag as cost for it. You downplay the value of that data, but everyone knows its central to choosing suicide gank targets, both for minimum effort and maximum reward. As said above, this wont affect wardec target scanning at all. ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3841 "2018-10-30T19:29:05Z")
That moment when you try to bait someone into answering a question that’s been answered pretty explicitly here > [@Faylee Freir - CSM 14](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/faylee-freir-csm-14/110123/173): > > What do you think about HS and LS also having access to the upcoming Player Gates? What do you think about scanning fit or cargo being a suspect act in HS, if not in wardec with the target? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3842 "2018-10-30T19:35:19Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > That moment when you try to bait someone into answering a question that’s been answered pretty explicitly here ? This is not the CSM thread. Are you confusing my discussion with Arrendis, with Faylee? Afaik, they are two different people. Are you saying they arent? ---
**Author:** ![Annah\_Tsero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annah_tsero/32/96572_2.png) [@Annah\_Tsero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annah_Tsero)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3843 "2018-10-30T19:38:38Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > This is not the CSM thread. > \*\*\* The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out\*\*\* When will you learn? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3844 "2018-10-30T19:51:21Z")
> [@Annah\_Tsero](#): > > When will you learn? Faylee hasnt posted here since several hundred posts back. Ive been talking mostly with Arrendis here. Are you saying that Arrendis and Faylee are the same person, or did you get confused? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3845 "2018-10-30T20:29:43Z")
So which of your neighbors are you currently planning to beat up for looking in the boot of your car? After all, you haven’t seen them do it, so you must suspect them, right? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 1:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3846 "2018-10-31T01:45:43Z")
> [@Grayclay](#): > > If you live in a big city and look at your window in the middle of the night and see someone wearing all black peering through the windows of cars parked on the street, that person isn’t committing a crime, but they are sure as hell _suspect_ . You are confusing ‘suspicious’ in general with eve online’s ‘suspect flag’. In eve what do you get a suspect flag for? Is it looking in people’s cans/wrecks? Is it bumping them? Is it moving an alt close to your wartarget for a warp in? All of the above could be considered ‘suspicious’ activities, but you don’t get a ‘suspect flag’ for them. And it’s the same for scanning peoples ships. So what do you get ‘suspect flags’ for? Stealing from someones wreck/can. Shooting someones property. Providing assistance to someone during a fight you’re not part of. Do you get it? The ‘suspect flag’ is not for ‘suspicious’ activity. It’s for what could be considered low level crime. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3847 "2018-10-31T06:33:10Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > The ‘suspect flag’ is not for ‘suspicious’ activity. It’s for what could be considered low level crime. Yep. It’s ‘a crime has been committed and YOU are the ‘suspect’—in the sense that you haven’t yet been apprehended’. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3848 "2018-10-31T11:10:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > > > The ‘suspect flag’ is not for ‘suspicious’ activity. It’s for what could be considered low level crime. > > Yep. It’s ‘a crime has been committed and YOU are the ‘suspect’—in the sense that you haven’t yet been apprehended’. Sure, but the point is that scanning a non-decced targets fit or cargo would be a suspect level offense. That its called “suspect” is just the term CCP chose for low level offenses to allow aggression without CONCORD interference, both for the suspect and their target. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3849 "2018-10-31T17:12:35Z")
A low-level offense that is punishable by death. You still haven’t answered the question: > [@Arrendis](#): > > which of your neighbors are you currently planning to beat up for looking in the boot of your car? After all, you haven’t seen them do it, so you must suspect them, right? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=189) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=191)