# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 191
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3850 "2018-10-31T17:15:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > A low-level offense that is punishable by death. Its not punishable by death, just enables defensive aggression against a player that commited a suspect level act. How you survive after going suspect is up to you. > [@Arrendis](#): > > which of your neighbors are you currently planning to beat up for looking in the boot of your car? After all, you haven’t seen them do it, so you must suspect them, right? This is EVE, not IRL. But if you want to do the IRL route, scanners that detect the speed detectors used by police are illegal in möst countries. Even if a device existed to scan under the hood or boot of a car or truck at distance, it would be illegal to use it, unless you are official of an authority entitled to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3851 "2018-10-31T17:43:44Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Its not punishable by death If someone goes suspect, they can be killed for going suspect. That is what ‘punishable by death’ means. It means it _can_ be punished by the offender being killed. It doesn’t mean death is guaranteed. It means it’s an option that is considered acceptable for those who wish to punish the offender to use. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3852 "2018-10-31T18:04:13Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It means it’s an option that is considered acceptable for those who wish to punish the offender to use. Yes, just like choosing the option to scan someones fit or cargo without wardec would incur a suspect flag, thus making you vulnerable to aggression. > [@Arrendis](#): > > If someone goes suspect, they can be killed for going suspect. You can be killed whether you are suspect or not. The only difference in a suspect level offense, is CONCORD wont intervene on either side. Thats why suspect flag exists. Players handle it. Not CONCORD. PS: You are never killed in EVE. You just respawn. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3853 "2018-10-31T19:25:39Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > You can be killed whether you are suspect or not. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Its not punishable by death So which one’s the lie? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3854 "2018-10-31T20:00:09Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > You can be killed whether you are suspect or not. > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > Its not punishable by death > > So which one’s the lie? That you can be aggresses is not a death penalty. Suspect flag does not incur a death penalty. Criminal flag does incur a death penalty, as administered by CONCORD. Think before you post next time. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3855 "2018-10-31T21:26:42Z")
Criminal flags incur a _mandatory_ death penalty. Suspect flags are _punishable_ by death—lesser punishments are also available. Does it _hurt_ to be wrong that often? ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3856 "2018-10-31T22:55:58Z")
I kind of understand where Salvos is coming from on this, the only reason to scan is if you want to know if someone is worth killing. However, I’m pretty sure it stops a lot of people who don’t overload and do tank from being ganked. I’m guessing scanners more often decide _not_ to gank based on the result. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3857 "2018-11-01T05:41:22Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > scanners that detect the speed detectors used by police are illegal in möst countries I have one and I love it. I hate when I come up on people that have a Radar Detector Detector. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3858 "2018-11-18T22:23:06Z")
Ta, works nicely with a one minor change to your instructions. > // @include[https://forums.eveonline.com/](https://forums.eveonline.com/)\* instead of // @match. ---
**Author:** ![kosmicheski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kosmicheski/32/242510_2.png) [@kosmicheski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kosmicheski)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3859 "2018-12-03T16:20:03Z")
Where do I vote for CSM dismissal. Totally useless mechanics. We all see what the game has turned into. Null sec is safer then High Sec 🙂 New pilots go directly in to capitals, why waist time on useless ship classes. Sov wars ?? Where ?? Big fights? no lag fests. Oh! sorry we call it TiDi 🙂 How to fix Lag?.. well make multiple fights in multiple locations… NO! Too difficult! Must have every one and there moms in one system. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3860 "2018-12-04T00:44:31Z")
> [@kosmicheski](#): > > Where do I vote for CSM dismissal. You don’t. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > Null sec is safer then High Sec 🙂 No, it isn’t. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > New pilots go directly in to capitals, why waist time on useless ship classes. We kill those guys first, because they don’t know how to fly their ships. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > Sov wars ?? Where ?? Just had a big one in the north, next up is Geminate from the looks of it. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > Big fights? no lag fests. Oh! sorry we call it TiDi 🙂 TiDi is not lag. TiDi is what was introduced to fight lag. Folks can complain about TiDi but they apparently don’t remember what it was like back in the bad old days when lag and black screens happened anytime you got more than 1k people in a system. TiDi makes big fights possible. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > How to fix Lag?.. well make multiple fights in multiple locations… NO! Too difficult! Must have every > one and there moms in one system. It’s not too difficult, it’s just not how people play the game. For the big fights, everybody wants to be there, from the combatants to the tourists. It’s just the nature of a big spectacle. Plus we like having their moms in system. Helps pass the time in TiDi. ---
**Author:** ![zen-vexor01\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zen-vexor01_lsg/32/106581_2.png) [@zen-vexor01\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zen-vexor01_LSG)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3861 "2018-12-04T15:53:11Z")
You can try but as CSM member you can not justify CSM existence, ordinary players do not want this kind of CMS that does not serve anything. You part of big corp metagame and just lost it. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3862 "2018-12-04T16:16:41Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > Null sec is safer then High Sec 🙂 > > No, it isn’t. **November 2018** Delve 12,000 ship losses The forge 20,000 ship losses Yes, it is ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3863 "2018-12-04T16:39:23Z")
> [@Iowa\_Banshee](#): > > Delve 12,000 ship losses > The forge 20,000 ship losses Please tell me this is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3864 "2018-12-04T17:44:31Z")
> [@zen-vexor01\_LSG](#): > > You can try but as CSM member you can not justify CSM existence, ordinary players do not want this kind of CMS that does not serve anything. > You part of big corp metagame and just lost it. I don’t have to justify it’s existence. CCP wants the CSM, so they get the CSM. And given that 30k+ accounts still vote for the CSM in each election, I think it’s a stretch to say “ordinary players don’t want this.” I’m not part of any metagame. I’m just a line member. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3865 "2018-12-04T17:50:02Z")
> [@Mina\_Sebiestar](#): > > Please tell me this is not true. It’s only true if you think that Delve and the Forge have the same number of players - they don’t. The Forge has a much larger population than Delve, so it’s going to have more ship deaths. And if you think Delve is safe, go compare the numbers for Catch to The Forge. ---
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3866 "2018-12-04T18:17:07Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > Please tell me this is not true. > > It’s only true if you think that Delve and the Forge have the same number of players - they don’t. The Forge has a much larger population than Delve, so it’s going to have more ship deaths. And if you think Delve is safe, go compare the numbers for Catch to The Forge. In high sec its war dec’s and ganks only, you can kill anyone in null so if you have enemies around they should have more chances to enguage . Mostly on the borders (keeping the homelands safe) Anyway look at these stats > **[DOTLAN EveMaps: Recent Statistics](https://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats)** > > DOTLAN EveMaps is the leading online/interactive map/alliance/corporation resource database for Eve Online Look at all those NPC ratting kills in Delve over the last 24hours A quarter of a million NPC’s killed - losses negligible - How safe it must be to rat in null? EDIT - as for population - how may players does it take to kill over 1/4 million rats in 24 hours ---
**Author:** ![kosmicheski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kosmicheski/32/242510_2.png) [@kosmicheski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/kosmicheski)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3867 "2018-12-04T18:22:24Z")
Very well argument answers, thank you for quoting me. Let me try to do the same on small arguments you posted. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Just had a big one in the north, next up is Geminate from the looks of it. After Geminate what? Are we going from region to region ? Since when CSM stands for “we decide when and where you are allowed to have a conflicts” ? Maybe we have to wait for the next meeting to see where the next big fight / betrayal will be. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > TiDi is not lag. TiDi is what was introduced to fight lag. Folks can complain about TiDi but they apparently don’t remember what it was like back in the bad old days when lag and black screens happened anytime you got more than 1k people in a system. TiDi makes big fights possible. Oh really? Heard that 100 time already. If the Lag is the same for everyone, then it is not a lag but a TiDi. When the server does not workout the requests, because they stay too long in the queue and people are randomly disconnected, victory is achieved! Good job on inventing new term for lag and distribute it to everyone equally like a good communists… How about ? MAKE MORE TIMERS! By making the game more dynamic? By maybe making the nulls less SAFE! Oh wait, it is not the right time… Groups that want / can do it are just not in the meta (invited to the CSM meeting) DISBAND! Useless representation of what the players want! ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3868 "2018-12-04T19:23:04Z")
> [@Iowa\_Banshee](#): > > EDIT - as for population - how may players does it take to kill over 1/4 million rats in 24 hours You’ve obviously never been super ratting before. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/3869 "2018-12-04T19:26:38Z")
> [@kosmicheski](#): > > After Geminate what? Are we going from region to region ? Since when CSM stands for “we decide when and where you are allowed to have a conflicts” ? It doesn’t. Players decide where the conflicts are and what they’re over. We don’t have any control over that, and we never have. Your question of “Sov Wars?? Where??” seemed to indicate that you didn’t think anybody was fighting. That’s obviously not true. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > Oh really? Heard that 100 time already. Then maybe the 101st time it will sink in. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > If the Lag is the same for everyone, then it is not a lag but a TiDi. When the server does not workout the requests, because they stay too long in the queue and people are randomly disconnected, victory is achieved! > Good job on inventing new term for lag and distribute it to everyone equally like a good communists… That’s not what TiDi is or how lag works. I do appreciate the communist reference, though. That was cute. > [@kosmicheski](#): > > How about ? MAKE MORE TIMERS! By making the game more dynamic? By maybe making the nulls less SAFE! > Oh wait, it is not the right time… Groups that want / can do it are just not in the meta (invited to the CSM meeting) This doesn’t make any sense, and I’m assuming it’s a language barrier. In the end, the players decide what they want to fight over. Not the CSM. We don’t have any control over what your alliance leaders decide they want to do in the game, or where they want to take space. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=190) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=192)