# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1246 "2018-10-07T06:46:24Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > No they didn’t. They badly analysed some statistics and came to that conclusion. You wouldn’t know good statistical analysis if it bit you on your arse. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1247 "2018-10-07T07:17:08Z")
the watchlist was useful for defenders also to use counter-hunting tactics…a lot of content was hindered by its removal as the tool it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1248 "2018-10-07T07:19:28Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > They only looked at people who were killed in the first couple of week then at their retention after a few months. False. They looked at 80,000 players–i.e. people. Then they looked to see how many of those where killed in their first 15 days. Then they looked to see if the person killing the player in their first 15 days were in turn killed by CONCORD. See, you can’t even describe what CCP did correctly. Then they provide a breakdown of those 80,000 who were killed in their first 15 days and grouped them into categories: - Not killed - Killed legally - Killed illegally Then they looked at the retention. The break down for each of the killed categories: - Not killed–85.5% - Killed legally–13.5% - Killed illegally–1% Retention: - Not killed–worst - Killed legally–second longest - Killed illegally–longest. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > People killed in week three who left immediately would have shown on their stats as a leaver who didn’t get killed. Yes, because they were looking at players killed during the free trial period. As usual you move the goal post. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > These same states get thrown up **constantly** by people trying to argue that ganking is good for the game. Because that is what the study was about, players in their first 15 days who were ganked. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > When CCP does a statistical analysis on activities that occur prior to people who leave, then we’ll see what affects retention. That is exactly what the referenced analysis was about. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > Irrelevant.Most people leaving the game either won’t state a reason or will just piock whatever is closest. Depends on if those answering the question is a random sample or not. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/25): > > Again, based on statistics that only look at ship loss in the first couple of weeks. No, he is referring to a different analysis. Good God. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1249 "2018-10-07T07:57:41Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/9): > > Otherwise they might as well give up entirely and introduce Battlegrounds. I give you Abysmal Space. We are heading straight to theme park EvE with a ridiculous speed. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1250 "2018-10-07T08:03:09Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/30): > > Oh…well, this thread just got Kelled. Lucashed … ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1252 "2018-10-07T08:45:17Z")
(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged) ---
**Author:** ![Balos\_Tritapo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balos_tritapo/32/89875_2.png) [@Balos\_Tritapo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Balos_Tritapo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1253 "2018-10-07T09:19:12Z")
Every little bit of PVP removed from high is a good bit. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1254 "2018-10-07T09:24:25Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/38): > > Every little bit of PVP removed from high is a good bit. I disagree. This game is all about risk and player interaction. Do you want market PVP to be removed from high sec as well? And competition over resources? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1255 "2018-10-07T09:25:36Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/37): > > TL;DR. Teckos, If you want to engage in a conversation try cutting down on the insults first. You are still wrong. And everyone can see it. ---
**Author:** ![Balos\_Tritapo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balos_tritapo/32/89875_2.png) [@Balos\_Tritapo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Balos_Tritapo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1256 "2018-10-07T09:25:59Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/39): > > I disagree. > > This game is all about risk and player interaction. Do you want market PVP to be removed from high sec as well? And competition over resources? Scamming and miner ganking? I would remove that the same second… ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1257 "2018-10-07T09:30:32Z")
I think you have chosen the wrong game to play, those things are part of the identity of Eve. Even though scamming and miner ganking is not something I do in this game, the existance of those things in this game is part of what has drawn me to Eve. If you want to play a game without player interaction I can recommend [Solitaire](https://www.solitr.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Balos\_Tritapo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balos_tritapo/32/89875_2.png) [@Balos\_Tritapo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Balos_Tritapo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1258 "2018-10-07T09:41:56Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/42): > > I think you have chosen the wrong game to play, those things are part of the identity of Eve. Even though scamming and miner ganking is not something I do in this game, the existance of those things in this game is part of what has drawn me to Eve. > > If you want to play a game without player interaction I can recommend [Solitaire](https://www.solitr.com/). I think PA will force CCP to throw the 15 year old dogma that “Eve is a PVP game” in the trashbin of mmog history where it belongs…times have changed and PA wants money…all those “independence claims” were just propaganda. Players today don’t WANT to be forced to pvp,they want pvp in special areas(like low and 0.0 in eve.) Pvp still can happen there but CCP has to leave the high alone. If they don’t do it voluntary they will be forced by PA. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1259 "2018-10-07T09:44:09Z")
Look at everybody confirming their priors… 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Balos\_Tritapo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balos_tritapo/32/89875_2.png) [@Balos\_Tritapo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Balos_Tritapo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1260 "2018-10-07T09:45:00Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/44): > > Look at everybody confirming their priors… 😀 Do you deny that PA would make more money with eve if the games sails would be turned into the mainstream winds? This is nothing about tradition or the feelings of conservative fanboys…it’s about making money… Look at EA and how it recontructed once good games after buying another company…same will happen here… ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1262 "2018-10-07T10:10:22Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/45): > > Do you deny that PA would make more money with eve if the games sails would be turned into the mainstream winds? Short term possibly, long term it’d be the final nail in the coffin for Eve, because it would no longer be Eve. Eve has a long lived and hard earned reputation for being brutal, in a more mainstream market that’s going to turn people off. > This is nothing about tradition or the feelings of conservative fanboys…it’s about making money… Yes, it is about making money; but there’s more than one way to make it. Eve isn’t the only thing that CCP have to offer, their expertise in long term customer retention and community relations, and their tech expertise learnt from running a single shard server that can support thousands of players in one location is unique; all of this has value that can be leveraged to make money. Applied to BDO’s millions of players it could make a shitton of money without ever touching Eve. > Look at EA and how it _murdered_ good games after buying another company… FTFY > same will happen here… They’ll lose money on Eve long term if they do. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1263 "2018-10-07T10:14:50Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/46): > > So is playing on your own interacting with NPCs and avoiding player contact. EVE is a sandbox. It’s always strange to see anyone on any side trying to dictate what EVE is. I’m not dictating anything. But player interaction IS part of EVE. Yes, you can play Eve on your own interacting only with NPCs and avoiding player contact as much possible. But, you want to fly ships, which if you didn’t build them yourself, are built by other players. You want to shoot with weapons (or drones), which again if you didn’t build them yourself, are built by other players. You want to sell the stuff you gather through mining, fighting or anything, which is sold to other players. You want to get ISK, but what for, if not to use it to buy stuff from other players? This sandbox is filled with players and you’re part of the player interaction in Eve whether you like it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1265 "2018-10-07T10:40:30Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/49): > > Your assumption there is that EVE being the current variation EVE is what would keep it alive. Arguably the diminishing playerbase shows that’s not the case. If PA were to mainstream it (which for the record, I don;t think they should) how do you know it wouldn’t do better commercially? And your assumption is that changing the current variation of EVE would keep the playerbase? The same playerbase that kept playing this game, because they like playing the current variation of this game? Strange assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1268 "2018-10-07T11:21:04Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/49): > > Any facts to back this up? As many as many of the other claims in this thread. 😛 I’m willing to admit that my statement is my opinion, unlike some of the recently rolled crop of “[PA are the messiah](https://i.imgur.com/ySJU7NJ.jpg)” shills alts who claim theirs are undeniable fact. ---
**Author:** ![Tater-nuts](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tater-nuts/32/189043_2.png) [@Tater-nuts](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tater-nuts)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1269 "2018-10-07T11:40:46Z")
Removal of war decs in high sec would be a disaster. I am a high sec player and as much as I would love to have my stations completely secure from going “poof”, parts of the economy would be thrown into chaos by such a change. High sec needs wars to remove stations that control good moons, remove competing mining organizations from your particular system, or for the removal of a competing players station, whether it’s industry or market. Imagine what will happen in Perimeter if this were to happen, market Soyito’s everywhere! Pretty much everyone agrees the war dec system needs an overhaul, but ending wars in high sec is not the route to go. The problem imo is these massive blanket war dec corps like PIRAT that have 50-100 wars going at once. The simplest solution for now is to change the formula that is used to price war decs. The more war decs you have after 10?, the price rises severely per additional war. Also, the smaller the corp, the more it costs for the war dec. This is not a perfect solution by any means, merc corps could just create new corps to get more wars. However, it would be somewhat of a PITA for them and their logistics or be satisfied with a limited number of wars. Say NO to removal of wars in high sec!!! ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1271 "2018-10-07T11:49:46Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/47): > > Short term possibly, long term it’d be the final nail in the coffin for Eve, because it would no longer be Eve. And you are almighty and you will tell us what Eve is and wht it is not 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=62) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=64)