# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1316 "2018-10-07T16:23:04Z")
Someones troll farm is working overtime. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/2/8261fba4c46152a3c8696561c142085ce9e4c16b.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1317 "2018-10-07T16:49:36Z")
It’s his alt. … also, where’s that gif from? Looks amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1318 "2018-10-07T16:59:20Z")
A Norwegian Film. [Troll Hunter](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1740707/) ---
**Author:** ![Tellenta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tellenta/32/514219_2.png) [@Tellenta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tellenta)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1319 "2018-10-07T17:21:35Z")
Ok… ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1320 "2018-10-07T17:27:18Z")
There is also another point the anti-content people like to distort. what the CSM minutes actually say is: > CCP Larrikin pulls up activity data for players of corporations that have wars declared against them and it shows considerable activity drops in all activities during the war. They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends. It talks about **corp activity and NOT player retention**. And given that there is a non-exploit that allows people to simply reform the corp which is in heavy use how would we not expect the stats to actually look like that. Yet the anti-content crew here is already in full arms declaring that this is hurting retention while no one actually said that and the effect is easily explained. Another nice piece of information is this gem from the minutes: > Lebowski brings up the data which shows that it’s not actually a lot of brand new players that are being war decced, because they are not worth declaring war on most likely Prior to this very line ALL the CSM where pulling the new player card and how they think it hurts them. And already here on the forums this is forgotten again and the new player card is pulled out of the sleeve again and played like no one had actually completely obliterated that argument. Even the CSM where caught in the Highsec thread again using the new player card even after knowing this stats. ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1321 "2018-10-07T17:33:36Z")
Very nice thoughts, explanations and very well written, BUT final decision will bring a new boss, PA. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1322 "2018-10-07T17:34:17Z")
See? It’s his alt. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1323 "2018-10-07T17:35:12Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/45): > > Do you deny that PA would make more money with eve if the games sails would be turned into the mainstream winds? Yes, I’d quit and my guess is quite a few other long time players would as well. Making such a significant change in the game risks driving away the long time players and getting new players is not a given. It is a significant risk. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/45): > > This is nothing about tradition or the feelings of conservative fanboys…it’s about making money… No kidding. But if it is so easy why don’t you do it? The current agreement is that if CCP can meet their targets PA will take a hands off role (how rather CCP of them). If they don’t then things will get…interesting. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/45): > > Look at EA and how it recontructed once good games after buying another company…same will happen here… It is possible, but it is not a given. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/46): > > Nope, you just disagree and like to think that if you don’t agree with it, it’s wrong. No, as usual you are simply wrong on the facts. Which is hilarious given how much you love to go on about “facts” in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1324 "2018-10-07T17:38:31Z")
There’s also this one tool famously known from the main afk cloaky thread … … who’se apparent only purpose is enabling all the haters. He only ever posts to keep discussions going … … despite knowing that there is no point in it. Nope, not talking about @Mike_Voidstar. Not this time. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1326 "2018-10-07T17:44:03Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/49): > > Your assumption there is that EVE being the current variation EVE is what would keep it alive. Arguably the diminishing playerbase shows that’s not the case. If PA were to mainstream it (which for the record, I don;t think they should) how do you know it wouldn’t do better commercially? It might. But it is a _risk_ and kind of a big one. If such “mainstreaming” drives out current long time subs and since the future subs are not assured it is a risk. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/49): > > Any facts to back this up? Oh my God this is funny. 🤣 Oh, I’m sorry did that hurt your feewings? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1327 "2018-10-07T17:49:06Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/110): > > By your logic nothing involving any form of PvP ever affects retention No, it has been demonstrated by CCP in multiple presentations that losing at PvP is the biggest factor in retaining a player, so seems to have a pretty positive effect. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1328 "2018-10-07T17:51:51Z")
Another way to look at it - Thank our highsec CSM rep Brisc Rubal (who is frequently decried as a nullblob goon shill) for trying to help new player 1 man corps try out the new and expensive (to them) structures. They aren’t “spam” unless anchored in Perimeter. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1330 "2018-10-07T17:54:33Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/114): > > That’s not the current agreement. That’s the current PR which prevents the transition period from killing off sales. Are these more of your “facts”? > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/114): > > There’s no way a games company is going to buy another games company from investors (clearly indicating it’s no longer a favourable investment) where we can see ourselves they are fighting for player retention then just have a hands-off approach. t just doesn’t happen that way Sometimes it is best to let people with local knowledge deal with the problem. > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/114): > > No they won’t. You don’t get sarcasm at all do you. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1332 "2018-10-07T18:02:01Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/116): > > It hasn’t though. It has though. Multiple times. And you know it perfectly well. You ignoring the fact does not make them disappear, it just makes you the anti-waxer equivalent of EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Terranid\_Meester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terranid_meester/32/425207_2.png) [@Terranid\_Meester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terranid_Meester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1333 "2018-10-07T18:03:12Z")
I think CCP knows how to look at eve statistics better than you do. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1335 "2018-10-07T18:05:11Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/105): > > There is also another point the anti-content people like to distort. what the CSM minutes actually say is: > > > CCP Larrikin pulls up activity data for players of corporations that have wars declared against them and it shows considerable activity drops in all activities during the war. They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends. > > It talks about **corp activity and NOT player retention**. … What is funny with all them idiotic complaints is that war is **supposed** to suppress enemy activity. One doesn’t declare war in order to support and to encourage an enemy’s activity. It’s doing exactly what it is intended for. ---
**Author:** ![Terranid\_Meester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terranid_meester/32/425207_2.png) [@Terranid\_Meester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terranid_Meester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1336 "2018-10-07T18:08:07Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/41): > > Scamming and miner ganking? > > I would remove that the same second… Then you are a complete idiot then? ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1337 "2018-10-07T18:08:18Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/115): > > Are these more of your “facts”? Little boy learn to read bussines talks and you will understand whole transaction. Hint: there was 2 interviews where CEOs talks clearly about transaction conditions. That interviews was given to business sites not gaming portals. ---
**Author:** ![Terranid\_Meester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terranid_meester/32/425207_2.png) [@Terranid\_Meester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terranid_Meester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1338 "2018-10-07T18:10:02Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/46): > > Nope, you just disagree and like to think that if you don’t agree with it, it’s wrong. I don’t agree with it either and think you are wrong too. ---
**Author:** ![Terranid\_Meester](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terranid_meester/32/425207_2.png) [@Terranid\_Meester](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terranid_Meester)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1339 "2018-10-07T18:12:56Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/43): > > Players today don’t WANT to be forced to pvp,they want pvp in special areas(like low and 0.0 in eve.) Explain Dark Souls then. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=65) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=67)