# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1407 "2018-10-08T10:28:21Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > - How is the leadership/membership of a Civilian Corp structured? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > How much will it cost to setup? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Are there any member restrictions? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Can Civilian Corps join Alliances? Same applies as per player corp rules. (If the Alliance has structures, you are no longer Civilian status) > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Can you be kicked out of a Civilian Corp, and by whom? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Whom admits new members? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Is there a Civilian Corp Tax, and who sets it, and whom is it paid to? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Does the Civilian Corp have a HQ and can it share assets in Corp Hangars? Same applies as per player corp rules. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > How will the Civilian Corp transition into a Player Corp? They place a structure. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Can the Civilian Corp be given access/preferential treatment at Player Corp structures? Same applies as per NPC corp rules. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1408 "2018-10-08T10:28:46Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > As a basic outline that CCP might follow Did you log the wrong account? ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1409 "2018-10-08T10:29:05Z")
No Posts take time. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1410 "2018-10-08T10:30:56Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > This isn’t about you, you are here already playing. You want people to blow up player pixels, that have no intention of blowing anything up other than rocks and NPC’s. > Why are you trying to force playstyles onto people that don’t want it. I can answer that question very easily, I have been in hisec quite often and for extended periods, and I saw many that wanted to fight. I am looking for the balance to be such so that it will be possible to develop that attitude. Because if CCP does go in the direction I have suggested I will be coming back to hisec to do all that I can to make it happen. And I have no fear about nailing my flag to that mast. But while the war deckers have no consequences, players fighting back is just not going to happen to any meaningful way. Just log off for the week and perhaps longer. So for me it is put my money where my mouth is. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1411 "2018-10-08T10:37:29Z")
As stated already, wardecs for Civilian corps would be consensual. They could recieve 100 wardecs and choose to be immune to all but 1, that one could be from a similar sized corp, similar military power etc. and they might just decide that now is the time they want to fight. If they get obliterated, fine, step back. If they get a few wins, who knows what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1412 "2018-10-08T10:37:32Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > Same applies as per NPC corp rules. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Given individual players can be given such treatment, there is no reason to not allow this for Civilian Corps. This is how it would work out in this ridiculous idea. Make Civilian Corp that is unwardeccable, but otherwise identical to a Player Corp. Then just flag that Civilian Corp to have (preferential) access and rates to an alt or other main Corps structures. BOOM. Unwardeccable Player Corp, that doesnt need a structure, cos it can just use an alt or mother corps ones. This is utterly retarded. Did you think we wouldnt see through this? ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1413 "2018-10-08T10:39:01Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > According to minutes, nobody seconded his notion of suspending wardecs, till they are fixed. Then on that note, CCP really need to make sorting wardecs a matter of priority. It’s just a shame they didn’t take the same approach with the ECM changes 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1414 "2018-10-08T10:39:22Z")
What is different than being in an NPC corp and using a structure? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1415 "2018-10-08T10:39:53Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > What is different than being in an NPC corp and using a structure? Then just be in a NPC Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1416 "2018-10-08T10:40:46Z")
I think you’ve lost sight of the topic here and just pushing your own agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1417 "2018-10-08T10:41:58Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > just pushing your own agenda. Tbh, thats what you are doing. Do you deny it would just result in Civilian Corps that are identical to Player Corps, except they are unwardeccable, and instead use the structures of alt Corps and mother Corps that flag them for access and prefered rates? Or did you just not yet comprehend that obvious result? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1418 "2018-10-08T10:44:15Z")
We can stot posting now. CCP doesnt even once commented on that war issue in thread. The ideas are already posted, they are nothing new, and our bickering will not change anything. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1419 "2018-10-08T10:46:12Z")
I was the one campaigning yesterday that NPC corps are great for players, the feedback from others in this thread was that THEY DON’T WANT TO BE IN NPC CORPS as they have no attachment to them. You can keep banging the same drum no one wants to hear or try a different tune that the people in question like better. Oh and please, look at the Citadels in Hi-Sec already, most of them are already 1 man corps. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1420 "2018-10-08T10:46:17Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > I think you’ve lost sight of the topic here and just pushing your own agenda. Everyone has an agenda, I just pointed out above what my one was. I know you replied to another player. If it is indeed just the newer players then CCP will create a social corp and done, they will say HTFU to the older players who will continue to not log in and so on. The last time I saw a player complain about blanket war decs in hisec on the forums I told him to pay for his subs on a monthly basis, as soon as he got the war dec cancel his sub, give war dec as reason, wait for a month, then sub and start doing stuff, get war dec, rinse and repeat. There you go, and that will be called bad advice by some, except it ain’t… > [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > Oh and please, look at the Citadels in Hi-Sec already, most of them are already 1 man corps. Why do you think they are one man corps? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1421 "2018-10-08T10:51:05Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > You can keep banging the same drum no one wants to hear or try a different tune that the people in question like better. Let me tell you more about what will happen in addition to the above which you ignored. NS entities already have vast networks of alt corps and untold amounts of associated structures all along their pipelines between NS and HS, as well as in other HS regions where they operate alts and alt corps. If what you propose as “Civilian Corps” happens, all non-combat alts they have will join daughter Civilian Corps,be unwardeccable with all other advantages of a Player Corp, and have preferential access to their mother Corps structures, whereas newer and smaller entities as Civlian Corps will not be able to, because they lack the resources and connections. This would be disastrous for HS. Did you not think about this, or are you just pushing an agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1422 "2018-10-08T10:54:51Z")
How would it be disastrous, what would different than it is now. Wardecs on these large entities are not causing low retention, so why push this agenda? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1423 "2018-10-08T10:55:32Z")
> [@Sade\_Musana](#): > > what would different than it is now. Then why change it as you propose? You say it would make no difference, then why do it. Ill tell you why. You are trying to hide that it would make a HUGE difference for NS alts in HS. Meanwhile, it just makes actual HS corps even more vulnerable as they cant compete with the NS Civilian Corps with access to a huge web of preferred treatment alt corp structures. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1424 "2018-10-08T11:05:12Z")
Prove this web of alt corp structures exists already. Prove they don’t have preferential access already if it does exist. Prove that there is any advantage those null alts would have in a Civilian corp over an Npc corp. (I can already see one disadvantage even). So yeah… I think you need to step back from whatever you are on… this is not a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![Sade\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sade_musana/32/93959_2.png) [@Sade\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sade_Musana)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1425 "2018-10-08T11:07:59Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Then why change it as you propose? For the casual players who are dropping the game at the sight of aggression. Player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1426 "2018-10-08T11:12:38Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > the ability to war dec perhaps five entities without structures or without consent Welcome to wardec holding corps, which have members jump around as they find targets. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=69) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=71)