# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1507 "2018-10-08T13:36:36Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Many players take pride in the bounties placed on them, and they do function per payout, as they are. > > Its not worth the effort to tear it out, and would just diminish EVE in doing so. I’m all for pointless cute scoreboard isk sinks. But not at the expense of server stability and load. Bounties impact the server, we’ve seen it multiple times in big fleet fights. There are other, less server impacting ways to measure e-peens in EVE that don’t require an in-game functionality. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1508 "2018-10-08T13:38:36Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Minecraft players like to construct and build without others destroying it. Now that’s just flat out bone-headed. Sure, you’ve got creative-mode types who never do anything outside of Creative, but most of us play in Survival, where not only can (and DO) other players screw up what you’re building, but ever met a Creeper? Blow your crap right up, they will. > [@Whitehound](#): > > No, there isn’t. It is a hardcore PvP game. Yes, there is. There have been people who don’t PvP in EVE since its inception. I’m sorry if you don’t like it, but they’re here, they’ve been here, and they’ve been helping to pay the bills and keep the lights on for 15 years now. > [@Whitehound](#): > > If you believe there is room for non-PvP then you will also believe there is room for magic, a bit of Candy Crush and maybe a Netflix corner, too. I’ll admit, I’m not _thrilled_ about Mutaplasmids, or the mechanics of the hacking mini-game[1], but I think the Scope videos are pretty well-done and contribute to the richness of the setting. Now, if you want to talk about _genre_ elements, great, but anyone who’s complaining about the appearance of magic in their sci-fi has never familiarized themselves with Arthur C. Clarke, one of the absolute giants of the S/F genre. * * * 1. Or its limitations, really. I mean, the hacking system should be an extremely useful tool. Need to dock in a station you can’t get into? Hack the access. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1509 "2018-10-08T13:38:48Z")
I take this as you being surprised? Well, when you can only think of 💰 💰 💰 then you’re only fit to work in accounting and no where else. A game needs to include hurdles for players to over come. If you want to have people’s money and without giving them hurdles, maybe try to sell them insurances. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1510 "2018-10-08T13:40:37Z")
And when you can only think in terms of your play style, do you belong in a sandbox game that actively seeks to provide a wide array of them? I mean, I think you _do_, because I’m sure ‘myopic fool’ is on the list of ‘things you can be in a sandbox’. If you think PvP is the only hurdle out there, you’re definitely the latter half of that. ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1511 "2018-10-08T13:42:41Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If by “suppressing enemy activity” you mean “forcing players to quit the game” then you’re nuts. Stop making me agree with you, it was much more fun before, and anything that feels unfun should be nerfed. This is completely true though, if a mechanic is bleeding players away so starkly, it needs to be changed. I’m leaning much more towards hisec structure ownership meaning you accept the risk of war. Ganking already exists for harrassing those in NPC or possible future non-wardecable corps. New players should be able to play in an area of space free from wars, but one that limits mission levels and access to player owned structures. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1512 "2018-10-08T13:42:57Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > There have been people who don’t PvP in EVE since its inception. No, you’re wrong. They all accept and agree to PvP and they expose them selves to it. PvP is not just the act of you shooting somebody else or just you shooting first. PvP is the acceptance to shot others or to get shot by others. If and how you respond to PvP is irrelevant for it being PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1513 "2018-10-08T13:47:15Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > But let me ask you, do you believe EVE should be open to them and their play-style as well as the mechanics of Minecraft? /facepalm… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1514 "2018-10-08T13:48:06Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > But let me ask you, do you believe EVE should be open to them and their play-style as well as the mechanics of Minecraft? > > /facepalm… I take that as a no, even when you cannot express it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1515 "2018-10-08T13:49:39Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > > > But let me ask you, do you believe EVE should be open to them and their play-style as well as the mechanics of Minecraft? > > > > /facepalm… > > I take that as a no, even when you cannot express it yourself. Open to Minecraft players? Sure. Open to their play-style (whatever that means)? Sure The mechanics of Minecraft? ■■■■ no. And nobody, much less me, ever said so. You are trolling. Badly. Stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1516 "2018-10-08T13:50:20Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > No, you’re wrong. They all accept and agree to PvP and they expose them selves to it. If there aren’t people who don’t PvP in EVE, then you have nothing to complain about, and it’s _other_ people who are quitting over wardecs. If the ‘minecraft players’ you object to are quitting EVE over wardecs, then they have to be _in EVE_ in the first place. And once again, for the record: Minecraft players PvP, too. A lot more effectively than you do, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1517 "2018-10-08T13:53:22Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > I take this as you being surprised? > > Well, when you can only think of 💰 💰 💰 then you’re only fit to work in accounting and no where else. > > A game needs to include hurdles for players to over come. If you want to have people’s money and without giving them hurdles, maybe try to sell them insurances. No, it’s me not believing how somebody would say something so utterly absurd. If you want the servers to stay on for your PvP, we need new players in the game. We do not need mechanics that, whether by design or by use, drive paying players out of the game. I likely do a hell of a lot more PvP than you do, and I do not want anybody quitting the game for any reason. Fewer players means fewer targets. And I want guys mining and making ships for me to fly and blow up, too. I have heard a lot of reasons for why folks who like war decs want to see them around, but you are the first person I’ve ever seen actively arguing that this is a good mechanic because it makes people quit the game. I would check your house for lead paint. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1518 "2018-10-08T13:56:27Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > > > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > > > > > But let me ask you, do you believe EVE should be open to them and their play-style as well as the mechanics of Minecraft? > > > > > > /facepalm… > > > > I take that as a no, even when you cannot express it yourself. > > Open to Minecraft players? > Sure. > Open to their play-style (whatever that means)? > Sure > .The mechanics of Minecraft? > ■■■■ no. And nobody, much less me, ever said so. I’m not talking about the person who plays Minecraft per se. Of course can a person play many different games and can adapt to various play-styles. My question is about including the play-style, which is dominant for Minecraft, into EVE. Obviously is Minecraft targeted at very constructive and creative players, whereas EVE has always pointed out that it focuses on the meaning of loss. Games don’t set themselves apart from one another, by being like one another. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1519 "2018-10-08T13:58:08Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > My question is about including the play-style, which is dominant for Minecraft, into EVE. /facepalm x2. Nobody is advocating turning EVE into Minecraft… ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1520 "2018-10-08T13:58:56Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > No, it’s me not believing how somebody would say something so utterly absurd. Sorry, but then you’re not fit for the job. You need to know who you want to make a game for. Apparently you want to make a game for the banks and investors. This just shows how limited your comprehension of game making is. Greed is what we all have, and we all want to make money. You need to have more than just that though. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1521 "2018-10-08T13:59:58Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Sorry, but then you’re not fit for the job. > > You need to know who you want to make a game for. Apparently you want to make a game for the banks and investors. This just shows how limited your comprehension of game making is. > > Greed is what we all have, and we all want to make money. You need to have more than just that though. Okay, I’m an idiot for taking this guy’s bait. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1522 "2018-10-08T14:00:52Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > My question is about including the play-style, which is dominant for Minecraft, into EVE. Obviously is Minecraft targeted at very constructive and creative players, whereas EVE has always pointed out that it focuses on the meaning of loss. Games don’t set themselves apart from one another, by being like one another. Constructive and creative players… have you looked at the Arataka Research Consortium? Or the Villore Accords? Or _the Imperium_? An empire, now matter how legitimate or ill-, is something you create, something you construct. It’s a gigantic machine of interactions and moving parts, all having to do their thing, to make it all work. And EVE sets itself apart not just by focusing on loss, but also on what you can _aspire_ to be. And, you know, massive battles with more people than some MMO servers have. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1523 "2018-10-08T14:01:57Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Apparently you want to make a game for the banks and investors. @Brisc_Rubal Should we tell him Aryth exists? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1524 "2018-10-08T14:02:04Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Okay, I’m an idiot for taking this guy’s bait. Welcome to EVE forums. This guy is a known troll and thread wrecker. Now you know. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1525 "2018-10-08T14:03:03Z")
That’s what I do. You have no base for claiming otherwise and it is silly anyway, because it is you who is more likely to be caring only about what he considers to be “good for the game” within the limited scope of what your voters want. You know … to make sure you get re-elected … like, you know, a politician would do. And as you are one, in real life, there is no actual reason to believe that you really care about what’s good for the game. The likelihood of your words and actions being driven by the desire to get re-elected is too high to get ignored. I’m not against social corps. They just need to be gimped properly. There should be way more corps than just two types anyway. Way more than that. Different types of corporations with different abilities and responsibilities, to make sure there is a proper amount of options for people to pick from. That would be extremely good for the game as a whole, and if it actually mattered I’d have no problem expanding on that. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1526 "2018-10-08T14:05:08Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Nobody is advocating turning EVE into Minecraft… So you do understand that a game targets a specific group of players. Good. Now take the next step and think about who is in your group and who isn’t. Then look at making a game which targets the group who you want to have, and … shocker … discourages those who don’t fit in. Because believe it or not, what some despise can be the very thing others attract. This has brought many players to EVE in the past. Huge wars, big losses, crime, … those are all things unimaginable for your typical non-PvPer, but it’s this very dislike by the non-PvPers that makes EVE also attractive to the PvPers. It makes EVE their PvP game. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=74) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=76)