# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/141 "2018-10-03T10:18:29Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And hopefully, we can get them to take more steps. But we need to stay constructive, or they’re not going to keep engaging with _us_ at all. no, we can’t, most of answers to the problems are “we will look it in the future”. Do you remember all that megathreads that “wardecc are killing eve”, with numerous examples how it is bad for gameplay and player retention? And what most responses were? HTFU, go back to WOW etc. Nobody at CCP even think to check the number then? How insane is that? Now when owner changed and monies are needed it is not “you are not belong here anyway” medium? Respect is needed to be constructive, and it is mutual, when playerbase see that major problems are being pissed on don’t expect constructive discussions. There where numerous thread with constructive feedback about wardecc. Players are fed up. I’ll remind you being constructive when CCP will want to decrease NS bounties. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/142 "2018-10-03T10:19:03Z")
Ohhhh… ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/143 "2018-10-03T10:20:03Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > As for the spawn delay… yeah, it’d get noticed. Ishtars, VNIs, Taloses, wouldn’t matter. They’ll notice, and they’ll complain. Not that complaining should mean they get their way, but it’s a thing folks need to be ready for. Yeah, but openly communicate that it’s intended to be a nerf and ignore the complaints. It is necessary, so something needs to be done. My question would be, is it a good nerf for the situation. If devs have little time, adjusting behaviour for a couple dozen spawns shouldn’t be too bad. At least, I think it shouldn’t be much of a problem. It might not be as easy as nerfing bounties across the board, but it could help with the unsustainable situation that was highlighted until things could be sorted out and would affect the better ships disproportionally instead of banging everyone equally. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/144 "2018-10-03T10:23:24Z")
All those ratters and miners in null already had their “few minutes”. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/145 "2018-10-03T10:25:54Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Now when owner changed and monies are needed it is not “you are not belong here anyway” medium? Respect is needed to be constructive, and it is mutual, when playerbase see that major problems are being pissed on don’t expect constructive discussions. There where numerous thread with constructive feedback about wardecc. Players are fed up. CCP just _received_ a massive influx of cash from the sale. CCP owned a chunk of their own stock. They got something like $60 million. Right now they need money _less_ than they did six months ago. > [@](#): > > I’ll remind you being constructive when CCP will want to decrease NS bounties. Let 'em. Like I said to Mingja: there’ll be complaining, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Cyber\_Fight\_r](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyber_fight_r/32/167707_2.png) [@Cyber\_Fight\_r](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cyber_Fight_r)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/146 "2018-10-03T10:30:26Z")
Yes Gnsshadow you mainly hunted them on the gates in Nijara. You dont need any locator for that. All the guys who are defending the current state are alts of “high sec mercs” or guys who are connected to them. The only guys who have an advantage from the current state are these high sec “mercs”. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/147 "2018-10-03T10:33:22Z")
> [@Cyber\_Fight\_r](#): > > Yes Gnsshadow you mainly hunted them on the gates in Nijara. You dont need any locator for that. > > All the guys who are defending the current state are alts of “high sec mercs” or guys who are connected to them. The only guys who have an advantage from the current state are these high sec “mercs”. If mass-deccers still believe they “have no negative impact on the game”, then it’s a waste of time, really. It’s clear that the current system is detrimental for the game. CCP agrees, CSM agrees, a ton of players agree. If it’s dire enough to cause such a pretty dramatic response, it should be the top priority. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/148 "2018-10-03T10:33:28Z")
Mind you, @Mingja and @Jeremiah_Saken - on the subject of bounty reduction or wave delays or whatever… if it’s a knee-jerk change, something where CCP just arbitrarily tosses out numbers… that’s not gonna fix anything. That’s just another Band-Aid™ solution, being taken to see what happens, without a deeper examination of the potential effects, or likely responses in-game. It may be that the better answer is to find a way to produce more asset/ISK sinks, rather than trying to limit the faucets. I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/149 "2018-10-03T10:34:23Z")
> [@Cyber\_Fight\_r](#): > > Yes Gnsshadow you mainly hunted them on the gates in Nijara. You dont need any locator for that. Its well known in the merc community i’m a hunter and hate the current state of merc’s, hence the reason i’m not playing as I got bored of the status quo (Gate camping, station camping, handing your ass to you etc…) Problem is even if CCP reintroduced the hunting style game play its too late, people have become lazy and realise if you sit in one system with a newspaper sooner or later a juicy target will jump into death. If CCP introduce limits to war decs I’m happy with but they need to address the corp jumping issue at the same time, also the locating in citadel issue. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/150 "2018-10-03T10:38:08Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Mind you, @Mingja and @Jeremiah_Saken - on the subject of bounty reduction or wave delays or whatever… if it’s a knee-jerk change, something where CCP just arbitrarily tosses out numbers… that’s not gonna fix anything. Yeah, I don’t think so either. Initially, I called it a quick and dirty fix. I also think that a lack of sinks is a problem, mentioned that here: [ISK sinks](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/isk-sinks/80499) If something needs to be done quickly, bandaid it and fix it later. Given the limited time CCP has, it might take a year or two to to revisit the problem. I would prefer a more sustainable system until then, even if it’s a bandaid. ---
**Author:** ![Engelious\_Angelion](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/engelious_angelion/32/100486_2.png) [@Engelious\_Angelion](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Engelious_Angelion)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/151 "2018-10-03T10:38:29Z")
Well why not talk about the Faucet then that produce the most isk in game…plex… ---
**Author:** ![nomadd79](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomadd79/32/318737_2.png) [@nomadd79](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nomadd79)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/152 "2018-10-03T10:39:32Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > PIRAT’s just a bunch of trade-hub campers I like the idea of war deccers having to anchor a structure of somekind for each war. The anchor mechanics could mirror upwell structures but with fewer rf timers (or none at all) and destroying the structure will lead to an immediate end to the war. Defenders who want to fight back would have a focal point where they could get an _actual_ fight. With the right placement restrictions (eg max number per system, 1AU minimum distance from stations and citadels), attackers will no longer be able to just camp gates and trade hubs but would be forced to and warp to the structures to defend them in order to keep their war(s) going and to protect their investment (presuming each structure will have a considerable cost). It would also be possible for groups of defenders to band together to attack the respective structures that would end each others war decs and for alliances that wardec 100s of corps, defending these structures would thin out their resources and prevent them from all waiting at choke points for easy targets. At the end of the war the structure would go inactive and have to be scooped and redeployed to be re-used for another wardec. Just an idea. ---
**Author:** ![Rosov\_Aulmais](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rosov_aulmais/32/168511_2.png) [@Rosov\_Aulmais](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rosov_Aulmais)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/153 "2018-10-03T10:47:33Z")
I don’t know exactly how our issues reached you, but my thanks to CSM for showing care about Chinese players and bringing the issues to CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/154 "2018-10-03T10:50:12Z")
Yes it is knee-jerk change, or would be but remind me any latest changes that were acutally thought trought instead of “we will see later”. I’ve always said that there is no person in CCP that can see a bigger picture, who will see that changes are connected to each other and will impact more than change in stats. Perfect example are ceptors nullification, where the very core of the problem was anchored bubbles everywhere, that change follow another like taxi ceptors and disappearing of gate camps (because why…) next was magic wand fozziesov and so on. NS income wouldn’t be a problem if there were actual dangers to get them. For example can we disturb anoms farming and roqual mining enough to prevent gathering for opposing faction? Are fleet battles cost enough that it has impact the meta gameplay? (in other words if losses are easily covered because of ISK farming then what the point?) If hulls are easily replaceable then maybe butchering income is not a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/155 "2018-10-03T10:50:59Z")
Just keep in mind, that for every good looking war dec change you can think off, I can probably counter it in a way you didn’t see coming. Hence our moto, Delete the weak, adapt or die! The more changes, the more chaos. The more chaos, the more Eve content. So please change a lot of things. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Hoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hoshi/32/183998_2.png) [@Hoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hoshi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/156 "2018-10-03T10:52:41Z")
Plex does not faucet any isk into the game, it just moves it around between different players. I guess you could make the argument that the existence of plex incentivize people more to make isk but that’s a very secondary effect. ---
**Author:** ![nomadd79](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nomadd79/32/318737_2.png) [@nomadd79](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/nomadd79)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/157 "2018-10-03T10:52:56Z")
War decs have to change somehow. The system as it stands is just so broken. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Deadlift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_deadlift/32/237982_2.png) [@CCP\_Deadlift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Deadlift)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/158 "2018-10-03T10:53:17Z")
Thanks for reminding me i need to learn how to make a Feijoada Steve! \<3 God i love that stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/159 "2018-10-03T10:54:03Z")
> [@Hoshi](#): > > Plex does not faucet any isk into the game, it just moves it around between different players. I guess you could make the argument that the existence of plex incentivize people more to make isk but that’s a very secondary effect. Yup, that is entirely correct (I know you answered to the wrong guy, shameless opportunity to make this fact more visible 😊 ) ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2018, 10:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/160 "2018-10-03T10:56:25Z")
Not broken, but there are many things that could be improved. My main focus would be to protect the smaller corps, so they have time to organise and grow. Same like fishing. You dont catch all the small fishes or in time you wont have any fish left. And introduce corps that cant be war decced like NPC, but can function as a normal corp. Of course with many restrictions (no structures, max number of players, etc). Also raise the war dec fees for small corps to 150 and lower the cost of huge alliances. Or make the war dec fees be connected to the average age of the players. The younger they are, the more expensive. And make the trade hub undocks invulnerable. This way people at least get a chance to get out and people have to hunt after them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=9)