# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 84
**Author:** ![Iowa\_Banshee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iowa_banshee/32/218394_2.png) [@Iowa\_Banshee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iowa_Banshee)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1699 "2018-10-08T22:37:31Z")
I don’t know why you are bothering about insurance or neutral logistics. Outside of the legalized ganks around trade hubs and null sponsored fights over alt-owned structures, How many actual battles are there ? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1700 "2018-10-08T22:38:52Z")
What exactly are you risking when you war dec a mining corp with no PvPers? ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_yaken/32/382143_2.png) [@Toxic\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1701 "2018-10-08T22:43:51Z")
Them making friends with someone bigger and scarier than you I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1702 "2018-10-08T22:45:41Z")
And how often does that happen? Twice a year? ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_yaken/32/382143_2.png) [@Toxic\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1703 "2018-10-08T22:47:04Z")
I’ll let you know, I just Wardec’d some Russian guy’s 3 man Corp to kill their citadel. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1704 "2018-10-08T22:58:44Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > This is true. And everything else you describe, while dramatic and theatrical, is completely normal. For the clinical anxiety cases does modern medicine offer Prozac, Soloft, Xanax, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1705 "2018-10-08T23:18:25Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > It’s no change from the current situation. And I don’t know what your problem with neutral logis is. Once they start repping do they become suspect and can be shot by anyone, not just the war parties. You probably don’t have a problem. Just to clarify, do neutral logi currently get a suspect flag providing assistance to a war target? Does that fall under giving assistance to a party in a limited engagement? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1706 "2018-10-08T23:21:18Z")
Everything else I describe is how the pilots who don’t do PvP react. You asked what the problem with neutral logi is. That’s the problem: the people who don’t know what’s going on don’t have the wherewithal to properly assess their risk. And to say that the confusion and paralysis of not knowing what you’re doing… and not getting the time to figure it out because you get wiped out too fast… is something to be treated with _Prozac_? There really _is_ something wrong with you. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1707 "2018-10-08T23:56:32Z")
> [@Eve\_Griefer](#): > > Just to clarify, do neutral logi currently get a suspect flag providing assistance to a war target? Does that fall under giving assistance to a party in a limited engagement? Yes they do. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1708 "2018-10-09T00:00:43Z")
I hope you aren’t that unprofessional in real life. I now know it was a mistake voting for you. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1709 "2018-10-09T00:01:04Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > There really _is_ something wrong with you. No, there isn’t. It’s what some doctors prescribe for anxiety problems. It’s actually being prescribed for kids, too. Maybe get a check on your own mental health. Your comments seem a bit on the dramatic side. Are you sure you’re ok? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1710 "2018-10-09T00:07:02Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > hope you aren’t that unprofessional in real life. I now know it was a mistake voting for you. It’s unprofessional for me to identify someone’s political leanings based on how they write? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Nicoli\_Voldkif](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicoli_voldkif/32/100455_2.png) [@Nicoli\_Voldkif](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicoli_Voldkif)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1711 "2018-10-09T00:25:15Z")
> [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/156): > > > [@Another lie spread by the haters](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/another-lie-spread-by-the-haters/111504/156): > > > > We need real objectives in war > > Start setting yourself objectives. You cannot be a winner when you need someone to tell you when you’ve won. > > If this is too difficult for you then join faction warfare. There you have goals, objectives and rewards, all nicely predefined so you can feel like a winner. But corporate warfare is free from all predefined nonsense, which only limits the imagination and one’s lack of imagination is not grounds for game changes. > > When you then start a war with another corporation, but don’t know why you do it, then it’s no surprise that you don’t feel like winning. To start a war for the wrong reasons has got as much consequence as starting a war for good reasons. War isn’t about starting, it’s about knowing why you take the risk of going into war in the first place. That is all fine and dandy and I do that, but having been wardecced as the defender and completely out matched the attacker and they don’t actually engage in the fight which is all too common on both sides. Your objective involves waiting for the attackers to finally stop paying for the wardec so you can continue doing what your doing there is nothing you can do. Or on the other hand a group I am friendly with would love to be able to declare war on just a single constellation with the intent to knock out some structures blocking their expansion. Or hiring Mercs to actually be able to stop a war or take out space assets, and seeing their track record in game of being successful in doing that. The current war dec system allows none of that to be done, and is mostly a joke. Figure out some system that combines factional warfare plex mechanics with the ability to limit wars to specific regions while setting proper war objectives that the game will actually register to show off. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1712 "2018-10-09T01:10:34Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Maybe get a check on your own mental health. Your comments seem a bit on the dramatic side. Are you sure you’re ok? Thanks, had my regular check-up this week. And no, my comments weren’t at all dramatic. The fact that you want to make mental health issues a matter for snarking on a game forum, though… ---
**Author:** ![Yoshimi\_Askiarh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yoshimi_askiarh/32/97451_2.png) [@Yoshimi\_Askiarh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yoshimi_Askiarh)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1713 "2018-10-09T01:28:47Z")
Agree with Arrendis, let’s lay off the accusations of mental illness. Much less significant but perhaps we can also stop posting guesses about people’s real-life political affiliations. Neither are great topics for name-calling in a public video game forum. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1714 "2018-10-09T01:48:48Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s unprofessional for me to identify someone’s political leanings based on how they write? > > Really? Yes. Yes it is. Especially when you use it as a denigrating dismissal of what they argue, instead of actually arguing any points they make. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1715 "2018-10-09T01:49:42Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Yes. Yes it is. Especially when you use it as a denigrating dismissal of what they argue, instead of actually arguing any points they make. You missed the half a dozen back and forth responses we had, and I never dismissed what he argued, nor do I consider identifying someone as a libertarian as being “denigrating.” Why do you? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1716 "2018-10-09T01:52:27Z")
I’m sure. I mean, that’s exactly why people start bringing up other people’s political leanings out of nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1717 "2018-10-09T01:53:54Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > I’m sure. I mean, that’s exactly why people start bringing up other people’s political leanings out of nowhere. The argument made me laugh, because I have literally had the same conversation on a real life issue where that sentiment was shared. Sorry that noting that seems to have triggered so many of you. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1718 "2018-10-09T02:16:23Z")
> [@Yoshimi\_Askiarh](#): > > Neither are great topics for name-calling in a public video game forum. I don’t know why this would be considered name calling. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=83) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=85)