# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 88
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1779 "2018-10-09T08:47:50Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > It’s not nonsense It was nonsense. As I said, it can be immediately gamed by an inert wardec from an alt corp, which provides you witg better ores and mission rewards. It was a patently, flat out, unworkable and stupid suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1780 "2018-10-09T08:51:39Z")
That particular type of reward. Sure, I already pointed that out. But the defender being rewarded in some way for being in space is basically a requirement if you want war decs to actually create content. Therefore it’s not nonsense, it just didn’t account for abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1781 "2018-10-09T08:52:23Z")
> [@Rivr\_Luzade](#): > > You do not quit your group of friends and you do not have to abandon a cool name, reputation or logo if you drop corp for a week because of a war. If you do it like this, you are doing it wrong. Your friends can stay connected through ingame means with a dedicated corp-independent chat. Your corp stays intact with a holding char that simply keeps an empty hull up for the duration of the war. You still have access to your corp wallet, you can still have people use structures through Access Lists and you can still fully cooperate like if you were still in the corp. What would happen if you would just make it legitimate in game mechanic when you dont have to do that do get benefits, forget the hassle of telling everyone what to do, juggling corpmates, assets and lists? Give people a solution already? It would be like making all wardecs consensual. It would be just a lot less buearucratic 💩. Nobody would have to get idea to abandon game because of a wardec. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1782 "2018-10-09T08:52:58Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Therefore it’s not nonsense, it just didn’t account for abuses. It was a nonsense, stupid and unworkable idea that shows he is not thinking at all before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1783 "2018-10-09T08:54:02Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > That’s already been done. All structures can have their shields attacked at any time. > **[Upwell Structures Vulnerability States](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/208289385-Upwell-Structures-Vulnerability-States)** > > Structure Vulnerability States > > Vulnerable > > > This state indicates the structure may be attacked and can take damage. This is the default state for the structure most of the time. Under certain circ... > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Wat… > > This can be gamed immediately by wardeccing an alt corp, to improve your ores and mission rewards without any risk of aggression. > > THINK before you post nonsense. I am only providing a concept for incentivizing players. None of our ideas here are realistically going to be used by CCP no matter how right we all think we are. They are going to do what they want. I’m not sure why you’re so mad, but perhaps you should step back a bit yeah? > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Thats exactly what NS based HS Social Corps would do, and now you call it abuse. I haven’t suggested social corps here. I think your angst is targeted at the wrong person. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1784 "2018-10-09T08:55:52Z")
Uh Faylee. I’m not sure what you think that says, but that link says you can attack shields at any time. Ok yes, there are anchoring timers, but that’s all. There are only 2 timers, or 1 timer if it is in low power. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1785 "2018-10-09T08:56:21Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I haven’t suggested social corps here. What you said was implicitly tied. A wardec structure system for declaring wars, does not offer a way for aggressors to avoid their own issued wardec, except to lose it and all costs involved. Again, its like you are parroting a list of talking points without any thought on your part, or not even reading responses. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I’m not sure why you’re so mad, but perhaps you should step back a bit yeah? Im not in the least bit mad, albeit it is an annoyance to have to even bother to squash nonsense you have posted because you didnt think it through. Step away and think, to save us the trouble of this nonsense, and yourself the embarrasment. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1786 "2018-10-09T09:04:07Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I am only providing a concept for incentivizing players. None of our ideas here are realistically going to be used by CCP no matter how right we all think we are. God forbid you try making suggestions in this thread that isn’t tying structures to wars! Be gone! On a serious note, structures fix nothing. 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1787 "2018-10-09T09:14:15Z")
> [@gnshadowninja](#): > > God forbid you try making suggestions in this thread that isn’t tying structures to wars! Be gone! Well then let us just make war decs have to be consensual by both parties then and be done with it. Then you can have fun with those that want to fight and those that can’t can get on with having fun without having to fight. All sorted,… 🍿 So at this point I would advise CCP to make all war decs consensual as a quick fix. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1788 "2018-10-09T09:16:34Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > A wardec structure system for declaring wars, does not offer a way for aggressors to avoid their own issued wardec, except to lose it and all costs involved. I am saying that I do not want structure based requirements for wars because it will meaningful content based wars overnight. I’m not posturing by saying that I don’t want to have to defend a structure as an aggressor. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Uh Faylee. > I’m not sure what you think that says, but that link says you can attack shields at any time. > Ok yes, there are anchoring timers, but that’s all. > > There are only 2 timers, or 1 timer if it is in low power. The imagine is showing that once the structure is anchored and all that Jazz… IF you have an active service module the structures first timer will be it’s shield vulnerability, then it’s armor, then it’s structure. When you dec a Corp you have to wait for the first timer which is when it initially goes vulnerable, then you get to armor, then structure. It there is no service module active (low power) then you just have armor and structure timers. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1789 "2018-10-09T09:17:18Z")
This goes against the nature of Eve Online. I think we can find a way to protect new players AND make sure that everyone is able to be interacted with properly 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1790 "2018-10-09T09:18:00Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > The imagine is showing that once the structure is anchored and all that Jazz… IF you have an active service module the structures first timer will be it’s shield vulnerability, then it’s armor, then it’s structure. When you dec a Corp you have to wait for the first timer which is when it initially goes vulnerable, then you get to armor, then structure. Read it again. There is no timer for the shield. You clearly haven’t shot any structures in quite a while. Test edit ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1791 "2018-10-09T09:18:34Z")
Read the story from my blog that I linked previously and tell me that wars don’t have potential to interact with others in very interesting and unique ways. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1792 "2018-10-09T09:20:21Z")
I concede it’s been a very long time. I will look into this personally 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1793 "2018-10-09T09:20:22Z")
Add social corps. Make all wardecs consensual for social corps. Make CONCORD tax these corporations, NPC tax on industry, bounties, refining, every market transaction. Make building smallest structures available to them. Alternatively corps could choose the old system of wardecable corps. For citadels and structures that are not maintained and not fuelled, add suspect flag as long as they are unkept with suspect timer lasting 1 hour after bringing from that not maintained state. For every structure in high sec. See how it is after 1 year. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1794 "2018-10-09T09:22:30Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > This goes against the nature of Eve Online. I think we can find a way to protect new players AND make sure that everyone is able to be interacted with properly 😉 Not sure you can, the best quick and easy fix is for the corp being war decked to agree to the war dec, then problem solved. It is the quickest and easiest fix imaginable and at that point done and dusted. > [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > Read the story from my blog that I linked previously and tell me that wars don’t have potential to interact with others in very interesting and unique ways. It makes no difference, only a very small minority are interested in the wars and the content that is provided by the war dec. Best to make it consensual for all entities and be done with it. Quick easy and effective fix and gives CCP a chance to develop something better in a more measured fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1795 "2018-10-09T09:24:49Z")
I can imagine that not very many people want to have their Orca blown up, forced to pay back the cost of a POS, then pay rent on a highsec moon in Otela for a month. Not a lot of the negative experiences between players is enjoyable by both parties. It’s the positive AND the negative experiences that make this game unique. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1796 "2018-10-09T09:26:38Z")
I actually read the document instead of trying to follow the flow chat. I concede 🙂 I will have the opportunity soon to see it first hand. Shooting structures is something I have done, but most of the time only been able to make it for the armor or structure timer. Never done one all the way through. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1797 "2018-10-09T09:35:07Z")
The issue you have is that you are asking your prey to just sit there and take it with no hope or chance, and they just don’t log in because why play when it is so one sided and not fun. You have to be a special kind of person to do something that is not possible to win at, to feed ships for no reason, and people who are hisec only don’t have the ISK to do that. Sorry, but he balance is out of kilter and all I have seen from you is suggestions that make it even worse for the defender. The changes are not for the benefit of the war decker who has been having a whale of a time for many years, the changes are to deal with people who stop logging in and stay logged out. So come back to reality please… ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1798 "2018-10-09T09:35:29Z")
> [@Faylee\_Freir](#): > > I’m not posturing by saying that I don’t want to have to defend a structure as an aggressor. Why not? Its PvP. The wardec structure would be a conflict driver, same in that sense as every other structure in EVE. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=87) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=89)