# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 93
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1880 "2018-10-09T14:06:58Z")
You make a very good case for social corps. > [@Whitehound](#): > > Why wouldn’t you want to have this in HISEC? Changed it to what your question should be, and I think CCP can answer that, well perhaps they already did in the minutes. > [@Whitehound](#): > > They are the classic roadside bandits. Certainly much more than that…, they dominate hisec. ---
**Author:** ![BIade\_Runner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/biade_runner/32/143170_2.png) [@BIade\_Runner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BIade_Runner)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1881 "2018-10-09T14:09:42Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > It’s however just a game and not a replacement for your life Projection is a ■■■■■ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1882 "2018-10-09T14:10:05Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I understand that what will happen is that nullsec alliances will use them as logistics corps You arent understanding and extrapolating far enough. Did you read my post on what will happen? That will happen. If Social Corps are implemented as stated here by its proponents, NS alt HS Social Corps will dominate HS in a matter of months. It will be pointless to form an HS Player Corp, or HS Social Corp, rather than joining an existing NS based proxy Social or Player Corp, which has the structures, the military might and the member count to wreck you if you try to compete. HS will become NS’s backyard, and any attempt at forming a Social or Player Corp with a structure, not associated to them, will end in flames. How do you not see that. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1883 "2018-10-09T14:10:41Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So why do we need them when we have npc corps? That’s not my point. Instead, take yourself. You know what you want so you want to have these things in a social corp, right? But then you go on and now tell others what they shouldn’t have while you here bring your own demands. Does this sound reasonable to you? No, it’s not. Either we include all the demands, of all those who wish for social corps (or basically avoid wardecs), or we don’t give it to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1884 "2018-10-09T14:13:03Z")
> [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > Projection is a ■■■■■ 🙂 Don’t troll. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1885 "2018-10-09T14:13:37Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > You know what you want so you want to have these things in a social corp, right? Erm no. I want hangars and wallet. It why i started a corp. Thats why i know we shouldn’t let social corps have them. On a side note: I dont afk cloak, look at my stance on that. I don’t wardec, look at my stance on that. I don’t gank, look at my stance on that. I don’t awox but check what my stance was on friendly fire. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1886 "2018-10-09T14:15:27Z")
I think that is very possible yes, as I said I did not look into the ramifications with social corps because it is only a band aid on a gaping wound. It will sort out hisec for only new players and those that are happy to mission and mine. It will sas you say push players towards the recruiting social corps of nullsec entities. Now were that to happen, the nullsec entities would have a value in maintaining their structures in hisec, but they would want their people to come to nullsec, so losing structures to war deckers who hate shooting them anyway would just make nullsec look more interesting and stable. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Then why are you endorsing it!? I don’t, I think it misses the issue and is a band aid on a gaping wound, I just answered what I think the social corps could end up like if the intention was to not lose newer players to war decs by answering your questins, but it misses the entirety of the issue for me. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1887 "2018-10-09T14:16:02Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I think that is very possible yes. Then why are you endorsing it!? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1888 "2018-10-09T14:16:04Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I want hangars and wallet. It why i started a corp. Thats why i know we shouldn’t let social corps have them. So you don’t want social corps? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1889 "2018-10-09T14:19:45Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > So you don’t want social corps? NO. We do not want so called social corps. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1890 "2018-10-09T14:27:23Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > > [@Whitehound](#): > > > > So you don’t want social corps? > > NO. > > We do not. Then you also have no say in what should and shouldn’t go into it. If we choose to create social corps then it can only work if they are actually meaningful, and meaningful to those who want them, and so need to cover their demands. It will not work if we try to serve them a placebo. That’s like your mum choosing your cloths. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1891 "2018-10-09T14:32:02Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > It won’t do anything of the sort. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > This will lead overnight to massive unwardeccable NS based HS alt Social Corps, to facilitate their material convoys and HS operations. I dunno about ‘massive’, but… yeah, it’ll lead to hauler alts in social corps if they’re not in NPC corps, definitely. Not sure what other ‘HS operations’ you mean, though. Won’t be mining. No need for it for missioning (just stay in an NPC corp). > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Those NS based Social Corps in HS will have access to all their NS alt Corps structures in HS and favorable rates To do what? Market fees don’t vary by ACL permissions. > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Result will be them muscling out all legit HS Corps (especially new ones) economically, and militarily using their alt Corps to wardec any HS legit Corp (especially new ones) that sets up a structure in HS and goes Player Corp status. Muscling them out of _what_? All that highsec content we (as a group) left behind already? Also, do you think (since you’re talking structures), that Pandemic Horde is really going to go around wardecing any HS corp that puts up a structure? They wardec’d one guy because Gobbins was _sure_ there was massive income available by owning all the trade cits. (There really isn’t.) > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Also in recruitment, any new legit HS Corp will have nothing to offer its members, compares to the thousand member NS based HS alt Social Corps. Except, you know, having most of their people paying attention to HS all the time, and being active primarily in HS, and actually being there to do things with the newbies in HS. We’d just tell them ‘here, ship your stuff to 1dq, and run a shuttle through Aridia to 1-SMEB, then hit the JB and move the two gates over, we’ll get you set up.’ > [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Also means those NS based HS alt Social Corps income from tax, bounties and fees will skyrocket, rather than being sunk into NPC Corp, as now. You _vastly_ overestimate the amount of income that’s possible through HS that way, especially compared to the amount of income we’re _already getting_ through those same channels in null. If someone wants to do stuff in HS, it _ain’t_ for the money, I promise. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1892 "2018-10-09T14:32:47Z")
Wat? Oh man, the trolling is now becoming incomprehensible. Just stop. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1893 "2018-10-09T14:33:27Z")
I’m gonna go against you on this one. But the problem that Social Corps try to solve is central to the problem of WarDecs. So yes, Social Corps are wanted. We need a way to stratify the Risks that players can open themselves too. Although I will say that we will need more types of Corps, not just the Social ones. And a fix to your worries, members of Social Corps (or any type that cannot be declared war upon) can have their access to _Player-owned structures_ restricted. This prevents a lot of the shenanigans you have talked about. In any cases, levers exist to make the idea work. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1894 "2018-10-09T14:35:27Z")
Fine. Do it. Implement Social Corps as presented here, and watch HS and EVE circle down and out the shitter. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1895 "2018-10-09T14:38:49Z")
In the same way you don’t want characters to have dark hair because your character doesn’t have dark hair…🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1896 "2018-10-09T14:40:49Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > Wat? You don’t want social corps. That’s fine by me. I don’t have a problem with wardecs either. But if you really want to take part in this discussion then you have to grow up a little. So now you’re on the point of not wanting social corps. As a result do you only say you want social corps, but only if you can screw people over with it by giving them a placebo. While this may seem fun for you is this not constructive. We either discuss the possibility of social corps or we don’t. If it’s the later then you can always step out. We aren’t actually creating them. We are just talking about it and what these have to cover in order to meet all the demands. And lets be fair. I don’t have a problem with wardecs, but I also wouldn’t have a problem if these were completely removed from the game. It’s the worst solution, but even such a radical solution wouldn’t kill EVE and most of the older players will still be around. Then don’t tell me to stop when you find the discussion incomprehensible. You are free to leave if this is truly your problem. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1897 "2018-10-09T14:42:07Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > But if you really want to take part in this discussion then you have to grow up a little. Oh really? > [@Whitehound](#): > > So you don’t want social corps? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1898 "2018-10-09T14:42:26Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > Then don’t tell me to stop when you find the discussion incomprehensible. You are free to leave if this is truly your problem. Lets do it! ASAP! Put in Social Corps and EVE will be fixed. Do it! Surely this will work. Make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1899 "2018-10-09T14:43:19Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Oh really? Sure, you want to be taken serious, don’t you? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=92) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=94)