# The CSM 13 Winter Summit Minutes are out **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** csm\ **Created:** [October 2, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726 "2018-10-02T20:37:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1940 "2018-10-09T15:49:03Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > TL;DR: You don’t need to bother about them. Yeah, big shock. That was my point: we wouldn’t. I was responding to Proteus there. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1941 "2018-10-09T15:50:26Z")
Limit Haulers to above-Social Corps? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1942 "2018-10-09T15:51:12Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Limit Haulers to above-Social Corps? Why even bother? Right now, they stay in NPC corps, which _also_ can’t be wardec’d. Social corps don’t prevent ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1943 "2018-10-09T15:52:42Z")
It would create more incentives to rank up. edit: by that I imply that the ability would be deprived from NPC Corps too. Plus it would give more targets to proper deccers. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1944 "2018-10-09T15:57:33Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Seriously. Ok then. Lets do Social Corps as described here, and see what happens. Do it. See what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1945 "2018-10-09T15:57:37Z")
So how do you ‘deprive the ability’ to NPC corps? You can’t train freighter skills if you’re in an NPC corp? You can’t buy the freighter? You can’t undock in it? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1946 "2018-10-09T15:58:27Z")
I refuse to do this on the grounds that I am not a CCP game developer, and so **can’t** do it. But they can, and if they do, who cares? Won’t change anything. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1947 "2018-10-09T15:58:32Z")
There’s honestly no need for this. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1948 "2018-10-09T15:59:29Z")
Better to use lore reasons here. It could be that the manufacturers are limiting the rights of using their Haulers. You have to be in a registered/trusted/whatever Corp to have the license to pilot one. NPC-Corp Capsuleers are considers novice or something. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1950 "2018-10-09T16:00:30Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Better to use lore reasons here. > > It could be that the manufacturers are limiting the rights of using their Haulers. You have to be in a registered/trusted/whatever Corp to have the license to pilot one. > > NPC-Corp Capsuleers are considers novice or something. No no, I’m asking _how_ you do it, mechanically, not _why_ or _how you explain_ doing it. And… what happens if you already _have_ the skills _and_ the freighter, and you get kicked out of your player-run corp?? ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1951 "2018-10-09T16:00:57Z")
> **[Social Corps - Strawpoll.com](https://strawpoll.com/sac523p3)** > > Vote now: Social Corps - Yes, fixes everything., No, wrecks everything. or CBA. - Whats your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1952 "2018-10-09T16:01:10Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > It would create more incentives to rank up. No. That’s just an artificial barrier. The only incentive it creates is for players to bypass the limit and again to create normal corporations in order to gain the full features, but to dodge wars. If we didn’t already have wardec dodging as a common practise in the game then you may have a point. But because it’s common practise will a limit not have the effect you want it to have. Players will simply outsmart you again. ---
**Author:** ![Toxic\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toxic_yaken/32/382143_2.png) [@Toxic\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toxic_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1953 "2018-10-09T16:01:44Z")
[quote=“Dantelion\_Shinoni, post:1930, topic:110726, full:true”] Because in that case, nothing would be changed when it comes to Corps. Glad you joined the fray by the way, always good to see members of the WarDec Project in places where they can’t ban me or others.[/quote] Assuming CCP goes for the secondary option for a social group, why does it have to be a corporation? Also I don’t even remember why you were banned, (unlike Salvos) I guess I’ll have to go slog through those logs. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1954 "2018-10-09T16:01:48Z")
CCP and CSM, make Social Corps happen. After that, everything will be better. Thats what the posters here say, so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1955 "2018-10-09T16:04:25Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > After that, everything will be better. > > Thats what the posters here say, so it must be true. It’ll make things just as ‘better’ as the standalone ‘slap a structure on it’ will: it won’t matter. 😛 That’s what a lot of people are telling you, and you insist on this binary all-or-nothing nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1956 "2018-10-09T16:10:52Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And… what happens if you already _have_ the skills _and_ the freighter, and you get kicked out of your player-run corp?? That’s a good point lol. I guess the same thing happens then when you lose the skills or no longer have the PG/CPU to fly something (happened to me some long time ago). You can fly it until you dock up somewhere. Or you could have a sort of tax being applied whenever you fly one “without license”. > [@Toxic\_Yaken](#): > > Assuming CCP goes for the secondary option for a social group, why does it have to be a corporation? So that it can be targeted by mechanics. As much as we don’t want Social Corps to be targeted, especially by Wars, you still need them to have access to some basic options of being a Corp. I do think Social Corps should have a Corp Wallet, although their incomes should be heavily taxed. But yeah, you want them to be a type of Corp so that some Corp mechanics can be applied to them. Plus, it opens the design space needed to make Corporation Ranks, and corporation ranking up or downgrading down to expose themselves to more/less, bigger/smaller wars. ---
**Author:** ![Proteus\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/proteus_onzo/32/100121_2.png) [@Proteus\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Proteus_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1957 "2018-10-09T16:12:21Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It’ll make things just as ‘better’ as the standalone ‘slap a structure on it’ will They dont agree with the structure option. So lets do the Social Corp option then. See how badly that destroys EVE instead. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1958 "2018-10-09T16:15:53Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > I guess the same thing happens then when you lose the skills or no longer have the PG/CPU to fly something (happened to me some long time ago). You can fly it until you dock up somewhere. > > Or you could have a sort of tax being applied whenever you fly one “without license”. And all that to achieve… what? I mean, the freight services will just add that ‘tax’ onto their shipping fees. How does the ‘you can fly it until you dock up’ work for this? Skills get set inactive? And, again, to achieve _what_? That haulers, who already get killed _outside of wardecs_ can’t be wardec’d? Do you think the gankers _care_ about wardecs when they’re hitting freighters? Those destroyers are assumed lost as soon as they dock up. Miniluv pays for Burn Jita on their own every year, and _still_ turns a significant profit, all from ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1959 "2018-10-09T16:16:27Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > They dont agree with the structure option. > > So lets do the Social Corp option then. > > See how badly that destroys EVE instead. Much like the structure option, it will neither fix anything, nor destroy anything. It won’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726/1960 "2018-10-09T16:17:21Z")
> [@Proteus\_Onzo](#): > > They dont agree with the structure option. > > So lets do the Social Corp option then. > > See how badly that destroys EVE instead. You realise the ideas aren’t mutually exclusive… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=95) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-csm-13-winter-summit-minutes-are-out/110726.md?page=97)