# The End of Highsec **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241 "2023-06-14T14:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/101 "2023-07-01T20:09:56Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > But this is exactly the point of the `BLACK LEVEL` šŸ™‚ > > With this new level I EXPECT AND WARMLY INVITE YOU to shoot me when you see me. And I will be ready to shoot back ofc. I routinely fly suspect-flagged (because I have uncontrollable kleptomania). I can attest to the fact that outside of hubs and _maybe_ the ganking choke points where there are kill squads present (or at least a high enough concentration of randoms), no one actually engages suspects because, _surprise,_ 99.99% of high-sec residents are deathly afraid of any potential for PvP. Iā€™ve mentioned this before too, but you can perform an experiment: flag yourself as a suspect, get some kind of relatively innocuous ship, and cozy up to people mining or running missions or whatever. At least a solid _half_ will straight up go and dock the moment they look at their screens and notice you, and log off for the rest of the day (even though you donā€™t present any more danger as a suspect than any other random neutral). ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/102 "2023-07-01T20:16:07Z")
All Destiny does is exploit the wardec system to grief people who donā€™t want PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/103 "2023-07-01T21:20:47Z")
I totally get your point, my security is negative but closer to zero so I nevertheless show up as yellow (but I avoid suspect timers). It certainly raises some feathers or blood pressure (as it does to me when I see yellow ā€¦or flashy in the overview šŸ˜± ) I just wanted to see what happens when I shoot that POCO over _my_ planet šŸ˜› I am not into-pvp yet. I was invited to a duel but this needs to wait for my skills to raise up so the friendly person who invited me wonā€™t have easy time with me aka not be bored šŸ˜‰ The `BLACK LEVEL` safety would have some psychological effect imho. I am not 100% sure of course that it would encourage players to carelessly engage in pvp more. But if you analyze closer my idea you will see the difference between voluntarily inviting everybody to attack you without losing security status and inviting to attack you because you committed a crime It is about consciously consenting to pvp - saying to everybody around ā€œI am ready to pvp in high or low secā€ There is no other choice in null of course. By comparison, if you can be attacked due to committing a crime you must be fearsome badass so its better to stay clear off of you even if it is okay to shoot you. But if you can be attacked for no obvious reason, precisely because you explicitly tell everybody around: ā€œcā€™mon itā€™s ok, shoot me (but Iā€™ll shoot back ofc)ā€ people might just become curious and try it for fun and not because somebody deserves a punishment because the game says he is a bad person. Thatā€™s my reasoning behind the idea of new safety `BLACK LEVEL` - different perception of pvp - that it can be voluntary accepted (and this acceptance clearly signaled) and not forced on anybody else. And nobody needs to lose security status or become a criminal to pvp. And you donā€™t need to go to null sec or try to invite every passerby to duel. Just set your safety to `BLACK LEVEL` (soonā„¢ hehe) and wait. I have some game event in mind and this new safety level would greatly facilitate it. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/104 "2023-07-01T21:34:30Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > But if you can be attacked for no obvious reason, precisely because you explicitly tell everybody around: > ā€œcā€™mon itā€™s ok, shoot me (but Iā€™ll shoot back ofc)ā€ > people might just become curious and try it for fun and not because somebody deserves a punishment because the game says he is a bad person. And Iā€™m telling you that the only people who will attack you are the ones who sit outside of Jita 4-4 with a dozen marauders and another half-dozen logistics ships behind the station. And even _those_ people wonā€™t attack you if they meet you out in the wild somewhere by themselves, because on an individual level, 95% of them are absolutely dogshit at actually _fighting_ someone when that doesnā€™t involve occasionally clicking on remote assistance broadcasts while shooting an Athanor. You would have to single out targets and do something really annoying to them (like stealing mission loot), which is basically what suspect-baiting already _is._ I guess I fundamentally donā€™t see an issue with being able to selectively turn on a permanent suspect flag, but itā€™s more of a convenience feature (e.g. so you donā€™t have to take extra steps like stealing loot or activating kill rights on yourself) as opposed to some kind of grand new gameplay mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/105 "2023-07-01T21:41:24Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > The `BLACK LEVEL` safety is a bad idea. Just be an outlaw. Oh wait CCP ruined what that means. Fix that instead. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2023, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/106 "2023-07-01T22:49:47Z")
But I donā€™t want to be an outlaw to give a reason/incentive to attacking me and I donā€™t want for anybody to be an outlaw for attacking me. I want to be able to tell CONCORD/EDENCOM to not get involved if somebody attacked me. Because I say so. I have three options now that give impunity from pvp: go to null sec - but I want to stay in high sec FW - I donā€™t like taking sides look for a duelist - it is ok, but involves some arrangements, typing and communication - I somehow feel uneasy with that šŸ¤” I want fourth option that also grants impunity from pvp: I visibly signal my consent to being randomly shot at without a warning and without any consequences for the attacker and I will defend myself - it would work like a constant duel but you donā€™t have to click that much and anybody can match with you. And nobody forces anybody to set safety to `BLACK LEVEL` and of course it wonā€™t set itself spontaneously on. As nobody forces anybody to accept duel invitations. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/107 "2023-07-02T02:15:11Z")
There is a fourth option though, going suspect. It doesnā€™t lower your sec status, CONCORD doesnā€™t get involved, and anyone can shoot you. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 5:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/108 "2023-07-02T05:51:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > no one actually engages suspects because, _surprise,_ 99.99% of high-sec residents are deathly afraid of any potential for PvP. well, _surprise_, maybe thats because a) most people flying around in HS donā€™t even have tackle, so why risk an engagement where they canā€™t make a kill anyway because the opponent can warp off any time? or b) they are in Ships absolutely not fitted for Combat (like long-range-capstable-PvE stuff) and c) HS-suspects are known to love all kind of shenanigans, so once you engaged that suspect Rupture that stole your wrecks in your Mission-Raven and made it warp off, it quickly turns into a full-blinged-PvP-Proteus, decloaking right next to you and laughs at your for being so stupid. Oh, and d) they simply donā€™t care because they have other things on their mind and the yellow flashing Atron at 50km is simply insignificant to them. But of course it feels better to tell yourself that everyone is just deadly afraid. Some might be, yes, others will simply not care for you because you are not of any interest for them. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 5:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/109 "2023-07-02T05:53:13Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > donā€™t even have tackle you mean a point right? tackle is webs point is scrams ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/110 "2023-07-02T05:56:47Z")
No. Point is a Warp Disruptor, Scram is a Warp Scrambler, and Tackle in general is anything that can prevent anyone from leaving the fight by his own choice. So, a Malediction with a Disruptor still is a ā€œtacklerā€. A PvE-Cerberus with just one web is not. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/111 "2023-07-02T06:03:24Z")
the reason scrams and disruptors are called ā€œpointsā€ is because they have a point value to prevent warping off. which can be beat or used to by enough warp core stabs. most disruptors have 1 point of strength most scrams have have 2 Heavy disruptors have like 3 faction scrams have 3 ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/112 "2023-07-02T06:06:52Z")
Wow thanks Cpt. Obvious. If I find anyone who didnā€™t know that, Iā€™ll let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/113 "2023-07-02T06:08:47Z")
not a Cpt obviousā€¦ But your statement of fact or interpretation was off or just wrong. I prefer the correct information even on terminology is conveyed on the forums for all readers. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/114 "2023-07-02T06:14:16Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > But your statement of fact or interpretation was off or just wrong. I donā€™t think so. If you want an example of something that is simply wrong, its this: > [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > tackle is webs > point is scrams Webs alone are not ā€œtackleā€ by any means. If I am webbed only, I am not tackled, I can warp away any time. Point on the other hand is no scram. Scram is when I have applied a Scrambler effect (aka having shut down MWD/MJD) on my opponent. ā€œPointā€ just means ā€œwarp disruptedā€, that can be a 1-point Disruptor or a Unlimited-Point HIC Warp Disruption Generator. Can you please stop this nonsense? ---
**Author:** ![Aisha\_Katalen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aisha_katalen/32/387724_2.png) [@Aisha\_Katalen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aisha_Katalen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/115 "2023-07-02T07:34:54Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > you mean a point right? > > tackle is webs > point is scrams You canā€™t be this stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/116 "2023-07-02T07:41:43Z")
Ok, but you still activelly need to find something to ninja to earn the timer and this still fall into perception problem of pvp with a _criminal_ in high and lowsec. That you pvp to punish and not to have some fun. Thatā€™s why I also suggested the chevron color in the overwiew should rather be green (like a _green light_ for pvp) to encurage and not to deter. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/117 "2023-07-02T08:00:36Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > But I donā€™t want to be an outlaw to give a reason/incentive to attacking me and I donā€™t want for anybody to be an outlaw for attacking me. I want to be able to tell CONCORD/EDENCOM to not get involved if somebody attacked me. Because I say so. Oh my god, you donā€™t know how Outlaws work, do you? You can have _everything_ you want today: just _be_ an outlaw (aka set your safety ā€œblackā€). Anyone can shoot you (your safety ā€œblackā€) without losing sec status. You can shoot anyone else who is an outlaw (set their safety ā€œblackā€) without losing sec status. CONCORD nor EDENCOM will get involved. Because you say so. You _even_ get your special icon in local letting everyone know ā€œHEY I AM AN OUTLAW AND PROUD, BRING ITā€. Are you really this much out of touch with the high sec game mechanics that youā€™re proposing a duplicate but _worse_ proposal? Why ARENā€™T you an outlaw yet? Fix _those_ reasons instead of having your terrible idea be codependent on the hilarious and terrible ā€œsafetyā€ mechanic. Wars, duels, timers, and outlaw are all existing gameplay mechanisms to do this. Because high sec was originally designed for having both law abiding and law breaking people. Actions have consequences for all involved. No lazy stupid outs. Want to have ā€œsafety blackā€? Youā€™re gonna have to _earn_ it bud, no easy toggle for you. Donā€™t like Outlaw? Fix those mechanics. BE AN OUTLAW. You get what you want. It is a waste of time and energy trying to bring ā€žI wanna PvPā€œ safety bit because it doesnā€™t even make sense in _low-sec_. You havenā€™t even thought about that, and it shows. Just fix high sec to be what it should be in the first place and stop dumping the crappy afterthoughts on low sec where ā€žblack safetyā€œ does absolutely nothing. We already have outlaws in LowSec and it _barely_ makes sense there. Itā€™s common for ā€žideas guysā€œ to forget ā€žoh yeah, lowsec is a thing tooā€œ and their ideas are absolutely dog šŸ’© for it. šŸ™„ Let alone proposing a duplicate dumb idea of existing mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/118 "2023-07-02T09:52:03Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > Sometimes it doesnt matter if you are full tank with no load and no bling. Gankers are good. Iā€™m not clear whose experience you are talking about, because all you have in the account you are posting in is numerous Venture losses in 0.3 Tama. This is _why_ killboard is useful, and people should post on their main or at least post links to whatever they are referring toā€¦so we can all see exactly what happened. But, all we ever seem to get here is ā€™ I was mugged by 25 marauders in my tanky haulerā€™ or other tales of woe with no substance, or claims ( as you make ) of input broadcastingā€¦again with no substance. There was a case here not long ago where someone had loaded a 2.5bn hauler with loads of small items that could have fitted in a battlecruiser. Iā€™ve regularly transported high value smaller items around in a battlecruiserā€¦fast align, high EHP, lots of DPS too. Iā€™ve moved high value ships ( like my Nightmare ) large numbers of jumps without being gankedā€¦and there too I have a few special tricks ( which I wont give away ) for the journey. And of courseā€¦the #1 trick is always to use a scout. And now that I am multiboxing, I can even form my own little protection fleet. Quite why I have never seen or heard of any hauler doing that is beyond me. I meanā€¦Iā€™ve seen haulers here boast of having 100 accounts, yet they whine about ganking. Think of the 20 battleship fleet they could multibox to protect their hauler ! ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/119 "2023-07-02T10:44:09Z")
Yes you are entitled to throw nasty words at anyone and generaly disagree to aything that you donā€™t understand but I donā€™t care much šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/120 "2023-07-02T11:07:46Z")
I understand your proposal perfectly well. It is you who plainly doesnā€™t understand you can have your desired gameplay _today_ instead of writing novel length walls of text. Go play the game with your ā€žblack safetyā€œ outlaw status. Whatā€™s stopping you? You. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241.md?page=7)