# The End of Highsec **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241 "2023-06-14T14:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lennox\_Dantes](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lennox_dantes/32/376609_2.png) [@Lennox\_Dantes](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lennox_Dantes)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/121 "2023-07-02T12:11:51Z")
They killed High Sec a long time ago by making mining ships tanky, giving them ore bays and compression. The nail in the coffin was requiring structures to wardec. CCP used to be a gutsy company. Now they are a weak, generic clone of everything else who’ve been handed something great. Destroyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/122 "2023-07-02T12:20:11Z")
You say you understand what I wrote and you propose I do what I wrote I don’t wan’t to because of a sense of punishment to it. And you do it in the way you criticise I do by writing a wall of text youreslf. Point a hole in my proposal of expanding an existing mechanics of duels? Because that what actualy `BLACK LEVEL` safety would be - an open invitation to duel. And no negativity of outlawness to it. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/123 "2023-07-02T12:27:01Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > Because that what actualy `BLACK LEVEL` safety would be - an open invitation to duel. Not really, if you would want to be perma-suspect, people can easily trick you and teaming up against you. Something they can’t do in a duel. ---
**Author:** ![cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyraxthehated_metesur/32/409997_2.png) [@cyraxthehated\_Metesur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/cyraxthehated_Metesur)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/124 "2023-07-02T14:02:32Z")
Cheddar popcorn anyone? Belches. Grabs mountain dew. Waits for mom to heat up hot pockets… ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/125 "2023-07-02T17:16:17Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > I don’t wan’t to because of a sense of punishment to it. > [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > And no negativity of outlawness to it. You are the problem, not the safety setting. You don’t want to have „black safety setting“ you could have _today_ because you are too scared of your feelings of being „punished“ for being an outlaw. People like you always say „One day I’ll PvP“ or „I _would_ be PvP-big all over the place _but_ this one _tiny_ thing stops me“ or „I am not scared to PvP I just never do it unless it is completely on _my_ terms“. It is no one else’s fault that you find the badassery of being an outlaw as somehow being a punishment. Instead of posting garbage tier ideas that don’t work in low sec, you should instead be listing why Outlaw — which gives you exactly what you want — is not sufficient, and you’d find that outlaw mostly works minus a few stupid things CCP has done. You have many more ally voices wanting to reverse the stupidity that CCP has done to eradicate outlaw gameplay in Eve Online. Heck you can even do the whole „mutual wardec everybody for free“ thing and get what you want. But you won’t even do that either. But you won’t even entertain the outlaw idea — and it’s still all about _you_ and _your idea_ with „no negativity“ — because you’re far more interested in it being „your idea“ and be spoon fed a „no consequence button“ and be patted on the back for being the „one who thought of it“ than actually starting from first principles. ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/126 "2023-07-02T19:10:08Z")
Id like to add that in all the records I have for courier contracts. Only one single full tank not overloaded was ganked. Every single other case was because the pilot chose to not fly with bulkheads and was using Inertia stabs or cargo expanders. That earns you a gank and lession learned the hard way. I still think my idea to have an assault style Damage control is in the right direction because it wont save AFK pilots. But i do think its too easy to then fit expanders. How about active module Bulkheads that add 10% resistance when activated for 10 seconds and a 2 minute cooldown? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/127 "2023-07-02T19:42:52Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > It is no one else’s fault that you find the badassery of being an outlaw as somehow being a punishment. Instead of posting garbage tier ideas that don’t work in low sec, you should instead be listing why Outlaw — which gives you exactly what you want — is not sufficient, and you’d find that outlaw mostly works minus a few stupid things CCP has done. You have many more ally voices wanting to reverse the stupidity that CCP has done to eradicate outlaw gameplay in Eve Online. If you’re an outlaw and in high-sec, you also have to deal with a nearly 1,000 DPS FacPo spawn. So no, that very obviously _doesn’t_ work as a solution. > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > Heck you can even do the whole „mutual wardec everybody for free“ thing and get what you want. But you won’t even do that either. No one accepts those. * * * There’s fundamentally nothing wrong with the idea for a sort of permanent suspect flag-style toggle. I don’t see the need to dog-pile on the person with your nay-saying. It’s like you people have been perfectly conditioned for shitting on literally any idea that pops up, and it’s an instinctive reaction at this point. Since we already have the suspect flag, I’d say that the idea needs a slight modification in order to act as an intermediate tier between conventional dueling mechanics and being a suspect; anyone should be able to attack you, but the aggression state would only apply to the _first_ person who attacks you. So after you’re attacked, you’d have a limited engagement with that person, and the “black level” or whatever would be automatically turned off. This could at least create the potential for some solo engagements. Anyone who wants to be open season for the entire universe could still go suspect by stealing some random loot or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/128 "2023-07-02T20:10:26Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I don’t see the need to dog-pile on the person with your nay-saying. It’s like you people have been perfectly conditioned for shitting on literally any idea that pops up, and it’s an instinctive reaction at this point. The guy literally doesn’t know the difference between a limited engagement timer you get from dueling and a suspect timer – nor even his own proposal – has clearly spent zero time doing anything in low sec, and doesn’t seem to be willing to do any PvP at all. It is an uninformed idea, and upon inspection it is a bad idea. The veracity and tenacity at which he is willing to stick to his idea, I am matching in counter force. Just because I can become a one-man show of irritation doesn’t mean there’s a “you people” who are all “dog-piling” on. You can tell me I’m being unreasonable and coming off strong. OK. I’m not sorry for it. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > the aggression state would only apply to the _first_ person who attacks you This is trends towards what the old pre-Crimewatch system was based on. CCP at the time said all of these 1-on-1 timers was exactly what they _didn’t_ want to have due to the confusion people had, and no amount of wishful thinking on our part is ever going to convince them to bring it back. The “black safety” idea is fundamentally not viable because it means the opposite of every other safety status. You need to have Black+green, Black+yellow, and Black+red variants because I can set my safety black and – while you lock me up – swap it back to green. You press F1 and now – whoopsie, what should the behavior be? If we’re going to open the can of worms of “the solution to bringing back piracy will as a tradeoff make crimewatch more complicated” then specifically making _safeties_ complicated sounds like a terrible idea. Period. It is going to confuse people, and that was one of the goals of Crimewatch in the first place: to not make it confusing to players. There is a whole wealth of ideas that could bring back outlaw piracy gameplay to high sec so its not the sterile boring wasteland it is today. That’s the goal, right? There’s a ton of first-principles kind of discussions that could be had. Starting the discussion with a specific proposal to changing safeties seems totally presumptive and putting cart before the horse and screams “I don’t know what we’re doing but something is better than nothing” which has never delivered great results. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/129 "2023-07-02T21:34:47Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This could at least create the potential for some solo engagements. Well, then maybe instead of a “black level safety setting” just give people an option in the settings to “automatically accept duel invitations” and mark them with a special little logo in local/overview, like it’s done with Killrights, Bounties (lol) etc. So everyone knows that you are willing to do 1on1s and we don’t have to confuse 99% of all players who wouldn’t want that anyway with just another safety-setting. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/130 "2023-07-03T06:31:34Z")
That would also cover what I’ve propsed. Thanks for _normalizing_ the data. But what I ment was more automatic, without the _invite to duel_ part. Just start shooting when you see that person with the special marker. It could be some item that you must buy off the market and consume to enter that _open invitation to duel_ state. @Io_Koval the name and UI I proposed was just a _working proposal_ idea. No need to get irritated. I would like to run a _fox chase_ type of game event like me in a shuttle loaded up with PLEX flying a circle of 20-30 jumps in low/high-sec. How am I supposed to allow anybody to get me without me stopping for getting timers so they won’t get obliterated by CONCORD/EDENCOM? That’s the main reason behind my proposal. And that remark earlier by @Destiny_Corrupted that almost no one is willing to pvp suspects hints that players in high sec just avoid suspects despite being allowed to. The _open duel invitation_ could possibly change that perspective on pvp, that it is not a bad thing. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/131 "2023-07-03T06:49:31Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > I would like to run a _fox chase_ type of game event like me in a shuttle loaded up with PLEX flying a circle of 20-30 jumps in low/high-sec. > How am I supposed to allow anybody to get me without me stopping for getting timers so they won’t get obliterated by CONCORD/EDENCOM? I am going to sound like a broken record here, but spin up an alpha alt and go shoot neutrals and pods in low sec until you’re an outlaw. Then you can use that alt as your „shoot me“ shuttle running around with PLEX. If you or Destiny complain about FacPo while being in a shuttle for a _fox chase_ event of all things we’re all gonna have a good chuckle. So… what’s _really_ stopping you? ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/132 "2023-07-03T06:56:42Z")
I thought avoiding being shot by CONCORD while an outlaw is against game rules and could result in a ban 🤔 I only mentioned Destiny because of that remark on players avoiding engageing her when she has a timer after ninja. She has nothing to do with my _silly_ idea. Focus your venom on me please 🙂 It is I who want to be an _open season for a whole universe_ hehe ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/133 "2023-07-03T07:13:56Z")
> [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > I thought avoiding being shot by CONCORD while an outlaw is against game rules and could result in a ban 🤔 You really do not know anything about limited engagement timers, suspect timers, outlaw status, and criminal timers. 🙄 Color me surprised. Jeezus, would you just take the 5 minutes it takes you to post on the forum and go do suspect or criminal activity in high or low sec. > [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](#): > > Focus your venom on me please 🙂 Destiny’s a solid person and can stand me mentioning them on their own. It’s not lost upon me why they find this idea appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/134 "2023-07-03T07:28:59Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > no one actually engages suspects because, _surprise,_ 99.99% of high-sec residents are deathly afraid of any potential for PvP. Not 100% true , we spent a large amount of time engaging every single flashy we could in and around Jita > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And I’m telling you that the only people who will attack you are the ones who sit outside of Jita 4-4 with a dozen marauders and another half-dozen logistics I love how people in the forums describe the actions of some groups , without naming names . Looks like some will be in perimeter a bit more, btw what’s happened to The perimeter police or did it end with tests demise ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 7:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/135 "2023-07-03T07:30:00Z")
I had criminal and suspect timers I know how they works. You stubbornly insist on me getting an outlaw status which will close low/highsec from me because every gate/station/concord ship start shooting me at sight. I really don’t see how that would help in running that event I mentioned? ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/136 "2023-07-03T07:31:08Z")
That is not how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/137 "2023-07-03T07:55:02Z")
So which outlaw status are you talking about? I only know the one you get after sinking security status low enough: [https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Security\_status#Effects\_of\_Security\_status](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Security_status#Effects_of_Security_status) Mine is [-0,25](https://esi.evetech.net/latest/characters/2120819548/?datasource=tranquility) now 😕 because of that POCO I shot once. Yours is [-1.3](https://esi.evetech.net/latest/characters/1709886520/?datasource=tranquility) so you certainly know what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/138 "2023-07-03T08:07:52Z")
Do you know what tags are. That’s not a question, because if you knew you wouldn’t judge people based on their actual sec status but upon their experience and knowledge gained from gameplay. Seriously, stop wasting your time with me and go log in with an alt and go figure out why your reading comprehension is failing you and causing you to hallucinate „every gate and station gun shooting you“ and imaginary CONCORD ships just taking pot shots at you. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 8:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/139 "2023-07-03T08:11:02Z")
I will check it, but man …you really have problems, and not only with me… ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 8:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241/140 "2023-07-03T08:16:37Z")
Thank you for recognizing my humanity. I hope you gain the knowledge you seek. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-end-of-highsec/409241.md?page=8)